How are the Hotseats working out?

[YAKOBU]

Hi everyone

I'll begin firstly by wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I haven't played any form of total war for a few weeks now but some of you will have come across me in your PBM's.

I'm now considering getting involved in a Hotseat for once and would like to know from you who have experienced them how they are working out.

Your comments are greatly appreciated and will help me decide on whether to participate or not.

Thanks in advance.

[Ramses II CP]

It's slow. If you're used to the SP game it takes about 2 months to get where you'd get in 1 hour of solo play. That's bad if the diplomacy is limited and there's no wheeling and dealing going on, but it's good if things get complicated. Essentially it is what you make of it, if you and your fellows put the energy in you can make it a lot of fun. If you just kind of cruise through, your game will just float along.

[Zim]

I've had a blast in the hotseat games. The diplomatic stuff makes a huge difference, and the challenge of fighting human opponents (and ability to cooperate with human allies) makes it worlds beyond single player.

The flipside is, as Ramses noted, it moves more slowly. Time limits for turns helps, but I don't know of any that gives less than 24 hours per turn, so you could still be waiting a while.

With stricter rules on time limits and admin enabled games (allowing gms to change a password if a player vanishes without a word, or even change a faction from player controlled to AI controlled), games run more smoothly now, and the Kingdoms campaigns run a lot faster.

I'm not sure if any are currently open, but there's nothing stopping anyone from making a new one, and players drop out of them sometimes( I think the first grand campaign has had some of this) allowing new people to take over their factions.

[_Tristan_]

I will agree that it beats SP by far...

Where you could cross the AI several times and have it come back begging, cross a human player once and you could pay dearly...

The interactions with other players either on the field or through diplomacy makes a great change and allows for a lot of role-play...

I can't bother to play SP anymore if only to try some options and see how they could turn out in the Hotseats...

[Paradox]

Are the battles auto-resolved or....?

[Shahed]

Yep.

And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you too YAKOBU !

[FactionHeir]

You can change the settings to allow full fighting in hotseat, but it wouldn't be exactly fair to your human opponent that is on the defensive.

Pace generally is slow, but if you check the MPC where we have some 8 or 9 players, it is actually fairly fast-paced recently with us all trying hard to get our turns in ASAP. I think we covered 3 or 4 turns within the last week or two, which is very good.

[_Tristan_]

Yep, the turn can be quite slow (mostly on my part...) but with players invlved and a GM to keep things rolling you can get quite a bit done quickly... A turn per week is what you should depend on ( mostly with the Kingdoms campaigns...)

Such timing is fine by me except that I keep waiting impatiently for my next turn and see what mischief the others players have dealt unto me...

[Zim]

I think a lot of us have that problem, Tristan.

I think a game where I'm at war with someone the very best I can hope for is that nothing happened before my turn. Players have a way of attaining victories, sometimes unlikely ones (*cough* Purgatory *cough*) during their own turns. Probably because, unlike the AI, they don't attack if they have no chance of winning.

[doorknobdeity]

Having all defensive battles autoresolved can be frustrating, but otherwise I agree that it can be far more fun.

[Zim]

In hotseats organized here on the ORG even the offensive battles are autoresolved, since a player could slaughter other player's armies if the defender was controlled by the AI. Still worth, I think.

[Privateerkev]

Hotseats in M2TW and Kingdoms are essentially different games from single-player (or SP as I call it). If your expecting a SP game, but with humans, you'll be disappointed.

But, if your open to "role-playing", and get in a good group, it is a very rich experience.

Having real people behind the factions makes for a better game even though the battles are taken out of it. In fact, I just see the battles as a tool for roleplaying. There is no nuance or subtlety to the battles themselves. Just build an "auto-resolve stack" like AtPG has laid out, get two or more to gang up on someone elses stack, and you will win the battle.

The subtlety and nuance are in other aspects of the game. Such as the alliances you make with other players. The diplomacy possibilities are endless. A lot gets set up even before the game starts.

[rossahh]

As a 1st-time MP player, I can say without a doubt that when they say "Hotseat games are about the diplomacy" that they ain't kidding. So far we've done one turn each, and already I've sent over 30 pm's, trying to figure out my alliances and future enemies. It's actually a lot of fun, and makes the game and the diplomacy much more realistic. You feel like you really are the ruler of your kingdom, dealing with 17 other such rulers who all want a piece of the world.

Don't discount the benefits of not having to interact with the AI. I know I can trust my allies - they won't blockade a random port of mine for a turn and toss aside a 100-year alliance like the AI does. And I don't really think that having to autoresolve all of my battles is that bad - my stack of DFK's and a catapult beating a stack of longbowmen and cannon towers hands down isn't too bad, is it?

[Zim]

Don't discount the benefits of not having to interact with the AI. I know I can trust my allies - they won't blockade a random port of mine for a turn and toss aside a 100-year alliance like the AI does. And I don't really think that having to autoresolve all of my battles is that bad - my stack of DFK's and a catapult beating a stack of longbowmen and cannon towers hands down isn't too bad, is it?

One special challenge of MP games is that the converse is also true. If a human ally betrays you, it won't be with a random blockade, followed by rolling over to your superior forces and refusing a ceasefire when you've got them down to one province and half a stack of peasants. They'll do it when they have you at a disadvantage or otherwise expect to gain from it. Some players take alliances very seriously while others will ditch them if they get difficult. Even in the case of the former arguments over mistakes or differences over conducting a war can break an alliance apart (as has happened in one hotseat game). Even the best AI in the world will suffer from being far more predictable than Human players.

Basically, playing MP introduces all of the benefits and challenges of dealing with real Human players.

[rossahh]

Oh Jeez, of all people to mention that my human allies could betray me ad destroy me, it had to be my closest ally in the hotseat game!

[Zim]

Oh Jeez, of all people to mention that my human allies could betray me ad destroy me, it had to be my closest ally in the hotseat game!