To be or not to be

[Fragony]

Just watched Mar Andento which I suspect translates into my life because that is what the movie is about.

The guy kinda lost it after so much to have it, broke his neck and had to be put on the toilet ever since. Now this was a force of nature someone destined to be happy that makes it so much more cruel. He wants to end it because there is no dignity in his current state of being but somehow that isn't his decision and that is why I open this thread. I am against abortion because it is simply murder but your own life is your own no matter how you live it or end it. All too gratefull that our family-docter gave my father a little bit of extra, from a selfish point of view I could not watch it anymore, and he simply faded away when he wanted to. How much of your life is yours.

So, on to euthanisia wrong or right.

[Papewaio]

The ultimate expression of life is in our choices. Death does end that array of choices, but surely we should get to choose life on our terms and have a death with dignity.

Mind you unless someone has a terminal illness all other options should be exhausted. To choose euthanasia would require a sound mind in an unsound body that is wracked with pain. I don't think euthanasia is a valid choice for those of unsound mind or a body that is less then perfect but otherwise functional.

[KukriKhan]

The trouble is: "euthanasia" is different from suicide, in that it involves another human to do the killing.

Pulling the plug oneself = regrettable, 'though there may be circumstances (like great pain with no sign of abatement) that can generate great sympathy in the non-suffering.

Having someone else do it for you... I dunno; it's hard to get past the murder verdict for the 'doer' for me, even though the victim was seemingly willing.

If I were the doer, I might do it if I was convinced it was for the greater good of the hurting person - but I'd expect to go to jail for the rest of my life, for my 'kindness' - because I did prematurely end someone else's life, and the state's 1st purpose is to protect life (then liberty, then the pursuit of happiness).

[Papewaio]

We euthanise animals all the time and call that mercy. We say to keep them alive and in pain is cruel. So are vets saints or sinners? Should we send them to jail for animal cruelty.

The state's first purpose should be to protect life. That doesn't mean that the state's purpose is to extend life beyond a certain point. After all if a state is prepared to send it's youngest and healthest to die for its principles, surely those same principles should allow the oldest and unhealthest the same right to die.

[Banquo's Ghost]

As long as euthanasia is subject to stringent checks and balances to ensure it really is the individual's choice, it should be available to them. There's no murder involved if the person requests to end their life with full decision making facilities - as Papewaio notes, we extend this courtesy to the suffering animal all the time.

I believe that the means for dignified suicide should also be easily available. If I so wish, I can end my life quickly but messily (and traumatically for relatives and staff) with my shotgun. If I were minded to, it should be available to me to go to a doctor and request the necessary drugs to end life gently, and to arrange the going to my taste - without harassment from law or moralists - and with proper arrangements so that my family don't have to deal with such distractions.

Of course, it would be the right of medical personnel who do have objections, religious or otherwise, to refer on to someone else, but the principle would be one of my choice.

Once again, the only reason these choices are not available to us is the lingering impact of religious dogma. There is such a thing as the sanctity of life, but not because that life belongs to some Creator God. That life belongs to me, and I should have the choice as to how I end it, just as I have the choice of how to live it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I wouldn't even object to being made into Soylent Green. The trouble there was the corporate lying and exploitation, not the concept of recycling an excellent protein source. I joke not.

[InsaneApache]

This is a very pertinent thread for me.

A very good friend of mine is dying as we speak. An ex-athlete he broke his leg making a cup of tea. Sounds funny doesn't it? Funny that you should break a leg making a cuppa that is. The thing is, he has cancer of the bone and it's very advanced. It's spread to his spine and we didn't think he'd make it to christmas. He did and went home last week after 3 months in hospital.

A very proud man who has never had to rely on anyone in his whole 77 years. Now confined to a wheelchair for the last part of his life, he is trying to be upbeat, as it's his nature, but you can tell the guys miserable. It's in his eyes.

The analogy with animals is very apt. If I was to keep a dog in that condition, I'd probably (rightly) be prosecuted for cruelty. Because he's human, I'd probably be prosected for murder if I 'helped' him out.

In conversations in the past with him, he's always said that he would not want to live like this. I understand why, but when he's gone, I'll still be here.

Not as easy as it seems the choice to euthanize or not.

[drone]

I believe that the means for dignified suicide should also be easily available. If I so wish, I can end my life quickly but messily (and traumatically for relatives and staff) with my shotgun. If I were minded to, it should be available to me to go to a doctor and request the necessary drugs to end life gently, and to arrange the going to my taste - without harassment from law or moralists - and with proper arrangements so that my family don't have to deal with such distractions.

Right here:



Personally, I don't have a problem with euthanasia/suicide for compassionate reasons. I have had relatives linger on for years in pain and humiliation, and I would never want to go through that myself, or put my loved ones through that hell. A legalized system would definitely need to be carefully watched for abuses, though.

Slightly off-topic: What exactly is the cause of the Western society's aversion to suicide? Does it all come from the Catholic Church?