Out of character thread XIX

[Ferret]

that 5th better not be me...

[TinCow]

LOL, no, that would be gibson, though I suspect he may live long enough to take the boat to Havana like the extraneous mafia did in Capo I.

[gibsonsg91921]

haha Havana sounds pimped out to me

[Cecil XIX]

I have decided to quit KOTR. I'd been staying on first out of sense of loyalty to Becker, and just recently I convinced myself that I would have fun playing a fairly decent role in the civil war. But I realized that those uber-stacks of Poles are not going to go away when the Reich turns against itself. And since Becker is going to be fighting the AI for the rest of his life, I've decided it's better to just quit now and get it over with.

This shouldn't require any great change to the narrative we've been planning, just have Becker die in the current siege and Fritz can take it from there.

I'll see you guys at the debriefing.

[gibsonsg91921]

Aww... Cecil. You joined about the same time as me, I remember. I was Ehrhart von Mahren and you were my dear Siggy. We'll all miss you - this is unexpected indeed.

edit: that Emperor Peter the Tyrant had to be RPed somehow, OK, can't Matthias give me a break!?!?

[Ramses II CP]

Argh, doncha want to lift the siege one last time and let me take you into custody? I'll keep you alive and away from the Poles, promise.

[Ramses II CP]

Okay, so, assuming Cecil doesn't have a change of heart (Becker will be missed!) I'd like some kind of semi-definitive answer about the fate of the bohemian mercenary and the trial. We just kind of glossed over the extermination of Prague for story purposes, but if Becker dies there this is going to be a pretty insurmountable problem for him. Without him, there's no trial, which suits Fritz just fine, but is it the direction we want the story to go in?

If I advance the turn we can always get to the siege of Prague and deal with it from there. I'd be happy to have Fritz ride to Prague's rescue using some variation of the teleport clause and then take Becker and the Bohemian prisoner (i.e. defending the siege first) for his own purposes.

Who can make this kind of decision?

[AussieGiant]

Cecil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Please please please please...I'll send you canon, men, butter, small donkey's...anything.

Fight the good fight my friend...the Poles, they need a man like you!! They need to be punished for their sins and, for simply being in the game. Econ's IS a sadistic bastard but he has great intentions.

PLUS, you're blowing Austria wide open man...and I mean wide open.

[TinCow]

I saddens me greatly that people are beginning to see KOTR as a chore instead of a game. I've been trying to move the game towards a place where it can be ended in a satisfactory manner, if people so choose. However, that is proving to be more difficult than I originally expected. I would like to make the following proposal:

1) We assume the trial was completed and Lothar was found guilty.
2) I will make a few posts, declaring Lothar unwilling to submit to the verdict. Other people are free to respond to these as appropriate.
3) We ask every KOTR player to pick a side: Imperial, Illuminati, or Neutral. We should even PM the inactive players (such as Stuperman) to make sure no one misses out on something they might want to participate in.
4) econ21 sets up a tabletop battle involving the Imperial and Illuminati sides. The site of the battle, the complete makeup of the armies, and all other battle-type things are left up to econ21 to figure out.
5) The side which wins the battle gets to write the epilogue to KOTR.

[_Tristan_]

Although a bit of a late comer to the game, I feel sorry to have it end like this...

I hope this will nevertheless be some kind of apotheosis

[FactionHeir]

I'm not sure if we need to end the game just yet. There is definitely still potential in it.

[Ramses II CP]

Given the activity level as opposed to the size of our empire I think we're at a good place to wrap things up. Obviousy every front that has active commanders can advance, our finances are such that we can replace armies despite the heavy losses from the improved AI forces, and even the Timurids should really only present difficulties in terms of our number of players.

I think TC's idea is a good one. We're at the point where the part I enjoy the most, the story created between the players, is coming through haphazardly because of slackening interest and activity. Except for Tristan's highly enjoyable handling of the French heresy, a crusade passed through Europe without leaving much of a shudder. The extermination of Prague and Dijon came and went in near silence. The arrival of the Timurids was similarly 'eh.'

Life sneaks up on us all, so it's not like anyone is to blame for losing interest (Especially going straight from the plague to Fritz the pile driver), but while I question if there are enough of us left to get to the victory condition, I'm sure there are plenty to bang out a great finale.

[AussieGiant]

:-(

Now I'm really not "digging" this type of situation.

My mood will swing for sure, but right now I feel like packing up my stuff and leaving the sandpit.

We can debrief unofficially but it's getting a little "canned" or "artificial" right now for an "in game" ending.

[_Tristan_]

I would agree that if the game has to end, it mus at least end in a big blast of PvP free-for-all...

The better to start the next game...

[FactionHeir]

Life sneaks up on us all, so it's not like anyone is to blame for losing interest (Especially going straight from the plague to Fritz the pile driver)

I dunno, but I think its good to have an aggressive chancellor that knows how to manage an empire well and makes the player faction much more powerful during his term. It would be silly to limit yourself in your management just to draw out the game IMO.

[_Tristan_]

I would agree with FH : being able to fight the "uber-stacks" in challenging but still winnable fights demands a fine-tuned management and drive that Fritz (or Ramses or both) showed..

But I know what some might think about facing those stacks, I've been there... It is what led me to join...

Interactivity between players and a challenging but not impossible game...

True, the game has slowed down on the "fight between factions" (or duchies) perhaps because some of the newest players (me among them) cannot relate to events that happened long before they joined and are not part of their avatar's history...

[Ramses II CP]

I'm glad you guys are enjoying it, and it's fun to run an empire where the results of a battle are reported rather than personally achieved, but obviously the aggressive nature of Chancellor Fritz wasn't universally beloved.

[econ21]

This situation reminds me of the Ugandan President's defence of selling off the national airline: when your grandfather is dead, you are sad, but you bury him.

Regretfully, I think it is time to bring this PBM to a close. Participation has been slipping since the cataclysm and, to use TCs expression, even I find myself regarding particpating in KOTR as something of a chore.

I take AussieGiant's point that an IC ending now feels rather abrupt and canned. TC and I had hoped that the story of the Bohemian deserter would allow a climactic civil war to erupt more organically. Ironically the Becker investigation/trial effectively kicked the planned storyline into the long grass. In a way, that made sense in terms of IC politics: handing hot potatoes to a commission or something to report on is a standard political ploy and anyway, with no side having a clear advantage, who would want a civil war so soon after the cataclysm? However, it was exactly the opposite of what we wanted OOC.

Nonetheless, given where we are now, TinCow's proposal seems the best way to end this. The Illuminati machinations have provided the most persistent undercurrent in the game and it would be interesting to see that story line brought into the open and concluded, either in victory or defeat for the secret order. A PvP battle will take a while to resolve, so we will have time to say our farewells to characters. And the event will also give those who want to participate, a chance to experience something they may not have had the opportunity to join up until now.

I would second TinCow's proposals exactly as they stand in their current form. My only rider is that I am going to be on reserve duty starting from Sunday, with no access to M2TW until the following Sunday. Without M2TW, I will not be able to umpire a PvP battle, as I rely heavily on the game to resolve the combats.

So what I suggest is that Ramses carries on until I am back. Autoresolve the Becker battle and we play on until the end of Fritz's term in the normal fashion. For story purposes, the Bohemian mercenary has been sent safely away before the siege. Then a week this Sunday, we do what TC said we should do. We say a trial was held and Lothar found guilty. Fritz and the Kaiser go to arrest him. Lothar defies them. Both sides rally their allies. We will play it out as a tabletop battle like Bern. The forces involved will be abstract (unrelated to what stacks are on the campaign map) and balanced. May be the best man win and all that.

[FactionHeir]

Meh, why balanced. Me thinks its more fun and realistic to have a certain amount of units contributed per elector, so whicever side has more electors starts with somewhat of an advantage

[TinCow]

That's fine with me.

[Ferret]

I think it would be a shame for it to end after all this time, and how would we incorporate so many players into the replacement?

[TinCow]

I think it would be a shame for it to end after all this time, and how would we incorporate so many players into the replacement?

Mod the game to allow recruitable generals from the lowest level of city and castle walls and give them 0 recruitment cost. It'll take a few turns to spawn them all, but it's doable.

[Ferret]

but then we'd have a fairly large advantage. Will the new game be played on a mod or anything?

[TinCow]

Eh, not the time or place to discuss that IMO. Let's give KOTR a proper send off first.

[Ramses II CP]

I tend to agree with FH that it shouldn't be balanced (Am I saying that as a member of the larger group? ) too closely. How often has skill alone decided victory in the field, especially in a civil war? Assign the levies and let the chips fall where they may by elector preference.

I'd personally also favor giving Cecil a chance to participate in the big finale as well, and I'd be happy to fight any sieges of Prague for him to get him to that point. I kind of have a vibe that Fritz and I pushed Becker and Cecil out the door, and that's definitely not the way I wanted things.

Of course if Cecil isn't interested in the PvP extravaganza that's cool too. There's still plenty of time in the defensive time limit, and if we get in too big a hurry I won't still be Chancellor, as little as that may end up mattering, at the end.

[gibsonsg91921]

I'm ready for a PvP extravaganza - in all honesty, I've been trying to get Péter killed for a reboot starting with that battle I closely won as Prinz in Franconia against the Poles.

[Zim]

I was hoping the investigation and trial would be played out a bit, especially considering the effect it could have on players picking sides.

Ah well, to the great PVP battle we go!

[TinCow]

My original recommendation on the armies was that each person gets a force that is suitable to their rank and situation. Counts get more units than Electors. Dukes and Viceroy get more than Counts. Chancellor and Kaiser get more than Dukes. Then toss in a bit of individual flavor as appropriate: A few Crusader type units for the guys from Outremer. Imperial Knights for the Kaiser alone. Flemish Pikemen for von Bohmen. Heavier on the Mercs for Fritz... that kind of thing.

If the sides end up unbalanced as a result of this, so be it. It's a war, it's not meant to be fair.

[gibsonsg91921]

Okay, I choose the side of the Illuminati.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No, seriously.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm dead serious.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't you trust me?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Alright, Péter will take the side of Péter. You got me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had you going there. At least I managed to make you kill 15 seconds.

[Cecil XIX]

I'd personally also favor giving Cecil a chance to participate in the big finale as well, and I'd be happy to fight any sieges of Prague for him to get him to that point. I kind of have a vibe that Fritz and I pushed Becker and Cecil out the door, and that's definitely not the way I wanted things.

Of course if Cecil isn't interested in the PvP extravaganza that's cool too. There's still plenty of time in the defensive time limit, and if we get in too big a hurry I won't still be Chancellor, as little as that may end up mattering, at the end.

If everyone doesn't mind, I would like to participate in the final battle if it's as Tincow described. Internal power struggles are the bread and butter of KOTR, after all.