Out of character thread XIX

[econ21]

I am afraid I have some bad news. My home computer - the only means I have of playing M2TW - has just gone pop. I doubt I will have it fixed for several weeks or longer. Coupled with various domestic pressures, this is the straw that has broken the camel's back and I won't be able to umpire the final PvP battle that had been planned.

I think I will also be scaling back my involvement at the Org - resigning as a mod and taking a backseat in any KotR successor. (TinCow has some great ideas for that and, given his exemplary role overseeing the cataclysm, I think it would be best if he presides over the successor PBM).

In terms of KotR, one possibility is just leave things as they are - Fritz and Peter, Lothar and Arnold about to leap at each other's throats as the frame freezes and credits role. A sort of fratricidal Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid ending. I get the feeling energies are largely spent and what are left should be devoted to helping TinCow get the successor game started.

Alternatively, if anyone wants to pick up the umpire role and meets general approval, they are welcome to. The PvP battle mechanic is fairly straightforward (split the battles into mini-contests in custom battles, playing from both sides to get a feel for the "average" likely result). The umpire could be someone who plays a protagonist, provided he steps down from that role (as I did with Numerius in the WotS). Or a genuine multiplayer custom battle between one or more representative of the Order or Illuminati would be another way to go.

I will leave it to you guys to work out how you want to proceed, perhaps with TinCow "chairing" the discussion to bring it to a generally agreed conclusion.

I am really sorry about this.

econ

[TinCow]

As I mentioned by PM, there is no need to apologize. Life, and especially family, always takes precedent over leisure.

As for the final battle, I personally would still like to have it occur, but I have no confidence in my own ability to run it. Do we have anyone who is willing to volunteer for this?

[Ramses II CP]

Well, I suppose as Chancellor I'm the logical person to try to be umpire. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in my ability to run things either, and as I play a rather pivotal character it would make things extremely akward. Even if I give Fritz to someone else, who is going to trust my objectivity?

Also, as Gibson noted somewhere else, he's having a bit of trouble with limited computer time as well, and the Kaiser is pretty key.

Overall I'd say it's a wash. I'm actually okay with resolving it without a battle, but I have a feeling we'd be missing out on some really good stuff.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I would love to volunteer to umpire the custom battle.

I don't have nearly as much experience as econ does, naturally, but considering that I have not just witnessed firsthand but actually fought the two major Throne Room PvP battles (Rome and Bern) I think I have an idea of how to handle things.

As far as objectivity, I admit that I'm not ideal. However, I haven't really been able to invest much time in Herrmann Steffen, and he does not have as much at stake as the senior Illuminati members.

I think that KotR definitely deserves a satisfactory ending, especially after our year-plus of hard work put into making this great. I'm willing to take the final effort if need be. econ, good luck with your computer issues.

[TinCow]

If you're willing, I think that's a perfect solution. Without Herrmann, the sides look about even, so it actually balances things out. We can simply say that Herrmann will share the fate of the Illuminati. If they win, he can triumph in whatever way you think right. If they lose, he gets the chop along with dear old Dad.

I'd like to give it a day or so to make sure everyone is ok with that, but since I predict they will be, it might be a good idea to start thinking about where the battle will take place and how to allocate the forces to the various sides. I was hoping that econ21 would take care of these things as the impartial umpire, so if you're taking over, those decisions should be yours. It might also be good to figure out whether the 'neutrals' are going to actually be neutral or whether it's going to be a three way battle.

[Ramses II CP]

I think having GH umpire is an excellent solution. As far as unit selections, I was just going to recommend that people's soldiers be, mostly anyway, drawn from the cities over which they rule and/or the mercenaries available in that same region. Of course there are exceptions (Peter will field Imperial Knights, naturally), but for Counts whatever is available in their County, for Dukes whatever is available in their Duchy (For the Viceroy Outremer, etc.).

Given the already immense complexity of the forces involved, and the liklihood that our general's cavalry will dominate anyway, I wouldn't go overboard assigning troops either. Maybe just a couple of companies per Count, twice that for Dukes, half again for Kaiser, and Chancellor/Viceroy fall somewhere in between.

You can tell I'd already been thinking about it in the meantime, eh? Feel free to ignore my advice and follow your own experience.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ramses, I had a lot of your suggestions in mind.

Basically, every avatar involved would personally contribute several units, ranging from a full stack to a couple of regiments. The size would be based on that avatar's power and influence. The units comprising each avatar's forces would be both representative of that avatar's position (Kaiser gets Imperial Knights, Dukes get Feudal Knights) and probably that avatar's "flavor" (Fritz gets mercs, Matthias gets Crusaders, Arnold gets... well, I don't even want to think about that ) as well.

Assuming it's okay with you guys if I do umpire the battle, I'll post some detailed ideas I had in mind tomorrow.

[gibsonsg91921]

Well, I'm back from being grounded from the computer, for the most part. So I can take an active role again.

EDIT: GO GH! Way to kick a. Now it's my turn to kick a. I always took Capo de Tutti Capi II as an omen for whether or not I could beat TinCow on the main front - we'll see.

[TinCow]

I always took Capo de Tutti Capi II as an omen for whether or not I could beat TinCow on the main front - we'll see.

Don't get too cocky. I've still got some tricks up my sleeves.

[OverKnight]

I am sorry to hear about your difficulties econ21, and I wish you the best in resolving them. You've done a masterful job of "chairing" KotR and still been able to contribute wonderfully as a player, a delicate balancing act. The amount of time and effort you've put into the game has been astounding. If anyone deserves a break, it's you. Many thanks for all you've done. I hope you'll still be around for TC's highly secret "Delta" project.



As for GH running the civil war, that's cool with me.

Are we looking at one climatic battle? Or will it be split into a few, like WotS? If it would be any help, I could map where the active avatars are and which side they're on, so we can gain an understanding of where the battles might be.

For example, the Swabian avatars are split down the middle and scattered in the western part of the Empire. Would they face off with each other before both factions gather under one banner or not? How about Hapsburg and Max Zirn versus the other Austrians? Other than that, the south seems solidly Republican, with Matthias landing there as well, while the north is Royalist.

Thoughts?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I was planning on making it a one-shot, epic battle. Let's assume that everyone and their armies avoided/missed each other on the way to the conglomeration point.

[Warmaster Horus]

GH umpiring is fine with me. I hope Econ's computer troubles sort themselves out.

Oh, by the way, I'll be one of the Steffen kids. Whichever doesn't bother me.

[TinCow]

Let's give this a full 48 hours for discussion. That will be 6pm EST tomorrow (2 days after econ21's post). If no one objects to GH's plan by then, he will become the battle umpire and we will abide by whatever rules and scenarios he wants to use for the final battle(s). Suggestions and criticisms are welcome, but the final decision on all things should be the umpire's. So, GH, assuming no one protests, as of tomorrow evening, you can begin this whenever and however you want.

[Ferret]

I am happy with GH being umpire

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

Econ, sorry to hear about how things have panned out. You are certainly one of the rocks that have had this game built upon and I'm a little sad in some way’s that this has happened.

I wish you all the best in your real life Sir, and hopefully with time passing things brighten back up.

I'm also clearly supporting TC's comment that there is absolutely no need to apologies for anything. I'm happy you gave us some feedback so we know what is happening in your personal life.

I hope things work out and you can participate in the next "Delta" project by TC. Even at a vastly reduced role hopefully you can provide a great character to the next PBM "story".

To everyone,

Honestly I'm fine with it ending like this without a final battle, but I know that if we continue with it my participation motivation will pick back up.

If there is to be a battle then I'm fine with GH taking over...but it's more the Royalists that should voice their support of the idea.

I also feel this should be one epic battle in which all are present. Everyone brings their respective forces to the Overall Table Top Battle.

If everyone sees that as a resolution mechanism, GH will be breaking down the various parts of the overall battle into smaller custom battles and then reporting those results to the Overall Table top view, then we can see how the battle will develop over the course of a complete one day (Game time) resolution of the encounter. This will in affect allow smaller conflicts to play out at the day progresses.

I don't advocate a piecemeal approach.

Lets settle it once and for all.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Two things:

- Firstly, will the Easter holidays (this Sunday) affect anyone's schedules?

- Secondly, all neutrals and undecideds have until TinCow's deadline (tomorrow at 18:00 GMT -5) to declare loyalties. Otherwise you will be left out of the battle. There will be no third faction.

[Ramses II CP]

I won't be leaving town this weekend, so it won't make any difference to me.

[gibsonsg91921]

ill only be gone for sunday. and as stated before, GH is fine with me, he isn't a noob that's gonna be cheating for the Illuminati.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or else :flashlight in face in the dark:

[AussieGiant]

Ahhh, yes GH,

I've been reliably told by the Illuminati Grand Master's secretary, that he will be in Spain on a 'Grand Master Business Conference' from Friday to Tuesday over the Easter weekend.

Therefore any battles involving said 'Grand Master' will need to be scheduled at another time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

All right, so nothing serious then. I'm working on a feature that will still allow us to fight the battle while you guys are gone to decent effect.

[AussieGiant]

All right, so nothing serious then. I'm working on a feature that will still allow us to fight the battle while you guys are gone to decent effect.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Basically, each side appoints an "Overall commander," who, in addition to sending detailed orders for the forces directly under his control, also gives general orders for his entire side. It comes in handy should one general not send in his orders on time or, in your case, be out a few days. Considering the magnitude of the battle, I doubt you'll miss more than two turns.

There's also another related feature I had in mind, but I'm not going to reveal it until the battle is posted (assuming I am confirmed).

[Northnovas]

Ahhh, yes GH,

I've been reliably told by the Illuminati Grand Master's secretary, that he will be in Spain on a 'Grand Master Business Conference' from Friday to Tuesday over the Easter weekend.

Therefore any battles involving said 'Grand Master' will need to be scheduled at another time.

Well no matter how inticing that sounds a weekend in Spain I will stick with Royalist. I am sure they will offer vacation package when the battle is over and won.

[gibsonsg91921]

Royalists get a free vacation to every country, just follow on the rainbow!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

of doom

[deguerra]

I am informed I have not made my intentions clear enough. Our tyrant of a Kaiser, my use- and faithless Duke, his self-important lackeys, and the lesser Austrian upstart can go get stuffed. I declare for the Illuminati.
I do this for three reasons:

1. Principles: Men like Hapsburg are tolerated among the loyalists.

2. Loyalty: I was loyal to the empire when it was deserving. I was loyal to Swabia when it was deserving. I remain loyal to those who have shown most loyalty to me, and those are the people of Flanders. They do not wish to live under Imperial tyranny.

3. God: Most importantly, God has clearly abandoned this empire. Were it not for Imperial lackeys sitting on the papal throne in Rome, the world would have no illusion about the crimes against the one true church that this Empire has commited. As it is, we fool the world. But we do not fool our creator.

The only man I go against here with a heavy heart is Chancellor von Kastilien, who was both a good chancellor and a good man. Sadly, he is related to the tyrant, and honour bound to die by his side. May his death be quick, and God welcome him to his Kingdom.

Ludwig von Böhmen

(OOC: should anyone feel offended, rest assured this is very much IC)

[gibsonsg91921]

why is this in the OOC thread then, lol? looks like a typo. i saw it in the diet tho

[deguerra]

:D because I am a bit silly at times :D I've reposted it in the diet where it makes more sense

[gibsonsg91921]

it's ok, just pass that doobage over here. :lol:

(for the record, I am not or ever will be a pot smoker)

[AussieGiant]

(for the record, I am not or ever will be a pot smoker)

Well for god sake Gibbo hand that stuff over here then!!!

[AussieGiant]

Basically, each side appoints an "Overall commander," who, in addition to sending detailed orders for the forces directly under his control, also gives general orders for his entire side. It comes in handy should one general not send in his orders on time or, in your case, be out a few days. Considering the magnitude of the battle, I doubt you'll miss more than two turns.

There's also another related feature I had in mind, but I'm not going to reveal it until the battle is posted (assuming I am confirmed).

You're going to start without me GH?

Hell's bell's mate that's not very sporting of you!!