Jailbreak in Gaza

[Beirut]

And the walls came tumbling down.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...aza/index.html

The Israelis were starving the population of Gaza, depriving them of food and fuel, so the Palestinians did what people should do when locked up illegally - they broke out.

If the other Arab countries have any brains at all, they'll ship supplies to the Palestinians right away, but that might be expecting too much. In any case, this is a wonderful taste of freedom for a people who have had their freedom stolen from them for generations.

I'm sure right now Israel feels just like the Soviets did when they saw the first part of the wall coming down and their prisoner-peoples getting a taste of freedom. They must be going bonkers.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Good for them.

[Don Corleone]

And the walls came tumbling down.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...aza/index.html

The Israelis were starving the population of Gaza, depriving them of food and fuel, so the Palestinians did what people should do when locked up illegally - they broke out.

If the other Arab countries have any brains at all, they'll ship supplies to the Palestinians right away, but that might be expecting too much. In any case, this is a wonderful taste of freedom for a people who have had their freedom stolen from them for generations.

I'm sure right now Israel feels just like the Soviets did when they saw the first part of the wall coming down and their prisoner-peoples getting a taste of freedom. They must be going bonkers.

Sorry, Beirut, I missed when the East Berliners were blowing up Soviet school children and when the Poles continually fired rockets into suburbs in Moscow. Could you refresh my memory there, or was that analogy simply for dramatic affect?

[FactionHeir]

But then I imagine the East Berliners and Poles weren't treated as badly as the Palestinians by the Israelis with supplies being cut, economy starved and brought to collapse with little hope of ever restoring it, daily raids with innocent civilians as casualties, airstrikes, and kidnapping of government officials.
Controlling the media to make their actions harmless as opposed to the oppressed was done in either event I believe.
On the other hand my history of that era isn't all that great either.

[Geoffrey S]

I can imagine this kind of approach being of more use to Palestinian propaganda than firing mortars into Israel.

[Beirut]

Sorry, Beirut, I missed when the East Berliners were blowing up Soviet school children and when the Poles continually fired rockets into suburbs in Moscow.

I hear they had their own problems back in the '40s.

Could you refresh my memory there, or was that analogy simply for dramatic affect?

I's a scoundrel, ain't I?

In any case, the oppressed are free and the oppressors have lost control. I'm loving it!

[MiniMe]

The problem with this comparison would be that East Berliners had Staatssicherheit and Poles had communists of their own.
Oh, almost forgot to mention: and those insidious barbaric russkies gave many more lives away in their struggle against communism than any other nation. A sad fact that would be very inconvenient for many people to acknowledge

So, perhaps it is not correct to compare these issues.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm sure right now Israel feels just like the Soviets did

Excellent analogy!

The Soviets never did return the land they took from the Germans sixty years ago. And never will. Nor will the German refugees ever return.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm sure right now Israel feels just like the Soviets did.

So the Palestinians are the defeated Nazis, except they still, weekly, launch attacks against the civilians of Israel?

No, wait. I remember now that if one side is defeated in a war they started, they get a free moral pass to kill as many innocents, civilians, and wedding guests as they can for eternity.

You do know that Gaza is cut off because the rulers, Hamas, continually launch rockets into Israel? That if the scum bag terrorists actually ceased trying to kill as many Israeli people as they could, they wouldn't be in this situation? That its their persistence in attempted genocide that has led to their current state?

The Soviets never did return the land they took from the Germans sixty years ago. And never will. Nor will the German refugees ever return.

Lol!

CR

[MiniMe]

...they took from the Germans sixty years ago...

Oh, dear. One should pity those who's gave his vote for herr hittler. It really had some consequences for them after all

BTW, they were not the only one who took the land from Germany. Winners usually take land from Germany when Germany's losing a war. Elsass-Lothringen would a fine example.

[Louis VI the Fat]

'tis but a joke, MiniMe. Not a political statement about the SU. I's just a scoundrel, teasing Noam 'Beirut' Chomsky a bit.

[Beirut]

So the Palestinians are the defeated Nazis, except they still, weekly, launch attacks against the civilians of Israel?

Well, it was some future PMs of Israel, not Palestine, who were killing Allied soldiers (like the Nazis did) back in WWII, so I'm not really sure where to go with that. I guess I better stick to South African analogies for Israel from now on, eh? Silly ol' me.

In any case, I hope all this leads to something positive.

[MiniMe]

'tis but a joke, MiniMe. Not a political statement about the SU. I's just a scoundrel, teasing Noah 'Beirut' Chomsky a bit.

sorry for misreading, my fault entirely. Me got involved in a dispute on .twc recently and must have lost my sense of humor completely.
Damn, me thought to have enough will to abstain from these mudpit disputes over there! me's an idiot

[x-dANGEr]

No, wait. I remember now that if one side is defeated in a war they started, they get a free moral pass to kill as many innocents, civilians, and wedding guests as they can for eternity.

So the Palestinians started the war? Isn't this there land that's now got other people living on?

You do know that Gaza is cut off because the rulers, Hamas, continually launch rockets into Israel?

Do you know that they do that because of continious Israeli.. *some pages long of aggravating actions* .. actions.

That if the scum bag terrorists actually ceased trying to kill as many Israeli people as they could, they wouldn't be in this situation?

They are just people who are not ok with the loss of their land. Oh.. that's the definition of "scum bag terrorists" there?

[Geoffrey S]

'Their land'? Why any more so than third-generation Israelis living there now? Whatever it was sixty years ago, it's not theirs now.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, it was some future PMs of Israel, not Palestine, who were killing Allied soldiers (like the Nazis did) back in WWII,

And are they still doing it to this day?

So the Palestinians started the war? Isn't this there land that's now got other people living on?

Several Arab nations.

Do you know that they do that because of continious Israeli.. *some pages long of aggravating actions* .. actions.

Like giving control of Gaza back to Palestinian groups? And by Israeli actions, you mean like trying to stop the ceaseless rocket attacks on their civilians without slaughtering innocents?

They are just people who are not ok with the loss of their land. Oh.. that's the definition of "scum bag terrorists" there?

Hell yeah it is. Guess maybe they shouldn't have kept on launching wars on Israel, or they would have more land then they do today.

The support of supposedly anti-war types for the Palestinians is mind blowing. But I guess the left just followed the Soviet Union's dictates and haven't stopped.

CR

[x-dANGEr]

'Their land'? Why any more so than third-generation Israelis living there now? Whatever it was sixty years ago, it's not theirs now.

So you do admit it got "conquered"?
And basing on that, validate their resistance?

Several Arab nations.

Which war you're talking about?

Like giving control of Gaza back to Palestinian groups? And by Israeli actions, you mean like trying to stop the ceaseless rocket attacks on their civilians without slaughtering innocents?

No. No.

Hell yeah it is. Guess maybe they shouldn't have kept on launching wars on Israel, or they would have more land then they do today.

Define "resistance".. "launch war" ?

[El Diablo]

In threads like this the safest thing to do is

Stop - Drop - and Roll.

I am outta here kids - waaaaayy too hot

(ED runs like the coward he is)

[Geoffrey S]

So the Palestinians started the war? Isn't this there land that's now got other people living on?

Several Arab nations.

It's also interesting to note that the Palestinians never actually had a nation, and only started claiming that status for themselves in reaction to the foundation of Israel and when surrounding Arab 'brothers' did astonishingly little to take them in. They were perfectly content to leave the Palestinians to fight a proxy war against Israel for their own territorial ambitions, and leave the mess for the rest of the world to sort out.

So you do admit it got "conquered"?
And basing on that, validate their resistance?

To the first, quite happily. Big mess all around largely caused by the Brits taking over, and the later Israelis capitalized on a situation in which the area was basically up for grabs. To the second, no. Israel is there now and is not going to leave, and is home by now to a native third generation (at least); in my mind that is enough justification for it to take measures against those that attack its sovereignty.

[Papewaio]

'Their land'? Why any more so than third-generation Israelis living there now? Whatever it was sixty years ago, it's not theirs now.

vs

'Their land'? Why any more so than ninety-generation Palestinians living there now? Whatever it was since Roman occupation, it's not theirs now.

Consider that there are reports of Palestinians tending Olive trees that there ancestors planted and that some of these tress are dying from old age, methinks they may be firmly rooted to their land.

[Don Corleone]

Apartheid. Holocaust references. Facism. Yes, those nasty Israelis deserve all the scorn in the world, don't they Beirut? Why won't they just let those Palestinians blow up children at school and shut up about it? Why won't they just go away? Why won't they just shut up and die?

In all the years of arguing this topic with you, I've never once heard you offer a solution that doesn't coincide with the Palestinian solution... kill all the Israelis. Hmmm, and somehow, the Israelis are the thugs.

[Beirut]

All I know is that the news tonight showed film of Palestinians buying food, getting fuel, and a couple of guys hauling a nice old Honda motorcycle over the remnants of the wall into Gaza. One family was all dressed up, just walking around, enjoying being free for a while.

It looked great!

[Ice]

Apartheid. Holocaust references. Facism. Yes, those nasty Israelis deserve all the scorn in the world, don't they Beirut? Why won't they just let those Palestinians blow up children at school and shut up about it? Why won't they just go away? Why won't they just shut up and die?

In all the years of arguing this topic with you, I've never once heard you offer a solution that doesn't coincide with the Palestinian solution... kill all the Israelis. Hmmm, and somehow, the Israelis are the thugs.

It's fairly typical. I see it from both sides here actually.

Once again, both sides are at fault. The Israelis are starving the people of Gaza, while the government in Gaza allows and most likely funds rocket attacks in Israel. No one here is really in the right.

I guess pointless bickering about who has the moral high ground works better though than finding a solution.

[Ronin]

Apartheid. Holocaust references. Facism. Yes, those nasty Israelis deserve all the scorn in the world, don't they Beirut? Why won't they just let those Palestinians blow up children at school and shut up about it? Why won't they just go away? Why won't they just shut up and die?

In all the years of arguing this topic with you, I've never once heard you offer a solution that doesn't coincide with the Palestinian solution... kill all the Israelis. Hmmm, and somehow, the Israelis are the thugs.

they´re both thugs....both sides in that problem have long ago lost the right to call them selfs the "good guys"....I say try to keep the explosions to a minimum...and that´s as good as it´s gonna get.

[Ice]

All I know is that the news tonight showed film of Palestinians buying food, getting fuel, and a couple of guys hauling a nice old Honda motorcycle over the remnants of the wall into Gaza. One family was all dressed up, just walking around, enjoying being free for a while.

It looked great!

Yes, I'm sure it did. I don't really think anyone enjoys seeing innocent civilians suffer.

[Don Corleone]

And all I know is:

1) Hamas has admitted they played up the blackout/crackdown aspects http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

and 2) More rockets landed in Israel from Gaza today.



Sorry, unlike you, I don't feel like smiling.

[Beirut]

Apartheid. Holocaust references. Facism. Yes, those nasty Israelis deserve all the scorn in the world, don't they Beirut? Why won't they just let those Palestinians blow up children at school and shut up about it? Why won't they just go away? Why won't they just shut up and die?

I think you'll be hard pressed to find any post where I said that.

In all the years of arguing this topic with you, I've never once heard you offer a solution that doesn't coincide with the Palestinian solution... kill all the Israelis. Hmmm, and somehow, the Israelis are the thugs.

I think you wil be hard pressed to find any post where I said that either.

Anything else?

[Beirut]

And all I know is:

1) Hamas has admitted they played up the blackout/crackdown aspects http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

and 2) More rockets landed in Israel from Gaza today.

Sorry, unlike you, I don't feel like smiling.

If we're going to start exchanging photo albums of attrocities, this is going to be a long thread. I can dig up hundreds that show the Israelis being, shall we say, less than diplomatic with their Palestinian neighbours.

[Don Corleone]

I never said you advocate Hamas's exterminate all Jews policy. I said you've never offered an alternative, just that you agree with their conclusions. I've offered a 2-state solution as a compromise, and you've rejected it. You seem quite fixed on the idea that Jews must leave Israel. Where, according to superior powers of logic, should they go?

[woad&fangs]

This will never get solved by politics. This ends when the country's youth look at each other and judge, not on the other persons religion, but on the content of each others character.* If the Palestinians are Ghettoed inside a wall(that bitter taste in your mouth is called hypocrisy. The remedy is to apologize and to tear down the wall) than the Israelis will see rockets instead of the people behind the wall. Rockets don't create friendships, people do.


*I'm on a MLK Jr. binge right now. Isreal could really benefit from a King Jr. like figure right now.