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Thread: Election '08: Super Tuesday

  1. #31
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Hysteria, sweet hysteria:

    With John McCain’s all-too-easy road to the nomination paved through Florida and now nearly complete one thing is clear: The Republican Party has been hijacked. Over the past month a new Axis of Evil has emerged -- not one based in Damascus, Tehran or Pyongyang -- but instead in Cedar Rapids, Charleston, South Carolina, Derry, New Hampshire and Boca Raton, Florida. It is the liberal and “independent” voters in these 4 states that have nearly completed a deed that makes Kim Jong Il envious -- the near crippling of the American Electoral System. These four states have combined their native liberal populism with an imported liberal electorate and have forced the GOP to accept a nominee so distasteful that in more than one poll -- the numbers of voters choosing not to vote and those choosing to vote third party actually exceed those who will hold their nose and vote for Maverick, War Hero, Amnesty Supporter, John McCain.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Wow talk about far right, no wonder our polticans can't get anything done if liberalism is seen as the equivilent to treason. If they don't respect the options of moderates what shape will our country be in when we need to make decsions that go beyond that partisain bickering.

    The one thing I agree about though is that we should just have a single primary date or else mix around everytime, its redicoulous that some parts of the nation are completly kept out of the process.
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  3. #33
    Peter von Kastilien - RIP Member gibsonsg91921's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Ron Paul - he's the future.

    But if he drops out or loses (likely at this point), I'm for Obama. I'm homophobic-phobic. Anyone who uses the Bible as their main vehicle for election is not a friend of mine - Huckabee is gone. McCain and Romney are conservatives in name only. Ron Paul is conservative, but not a zealous nutjob - he's learned how to evolve a brain. Hilary seems fake to me.
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  4. #34
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Hysteria, sweet hysteria:

    With John McCain’s all-too-easy road to the nomination paved through Florida and now nearly complete one thing is clear: The Republican Party has been hijacked. Over the past month a new Axis of Evil has emerged -- not one based in Damascus, Tehran or Pyongyang -- but instead in Cedar Rapids, Charleston, South Carolina, Derry, New Hampshire and Boca Raton, Florida. It is the liberal and “independent” voters in these 4 states that have nearly completed a deed that makes Kim Jong Il envious -- the near crippling of the American Electoral System. These four states have combined their native liberal populism with an imported liberal electorate and have forced the GOP to accept a nominee so distasteful that in more than one poll -- the numbers of voters choosing not to vote and those choosing to vote third party actually exceed those who will hold their nose and vote for Maverick, War Hero, Amnesty Supporter, John McCain.
    That is a stupid article. There is no evil here, but the G.O.P. is in trouble.
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  5. #35
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday



    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  6. #36
    The Blade Member JimBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    We are the world...
    OH **** HE'D TALK TO THE ISLAMS, HE'LL PROBABLY COME BACK AND BLOW UP THE WHITE HOUSE.

    Nowhere does it say he'll bend over backwards and do whatever they said, he said he'd have a dialog. He'd treat them like humans, not villains out of a James Bond movie. Maybe if we're seen as willing to talk anti-Americanism might have less support, bombing sure hasn't been a success. It's easier to be angry at people who are bombing you than who are trying to talk.
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  7. #37
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    It's a good thing we never talked to the Soviets during the Cold War, too. Oh, wait ...


  8. #38
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Looks as though some very old-fashioned conservatives are warming to the "empty suit":

    Jeffrey Hart sat at his kitchen table in slippers, reading Barack Obama's words aloud. The retired Dartmouth professor, a former speechwriter for Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon, wore on his shirt an artifact of the 1900 Republican presidential ticket -- a McKinley-Roosevelt pin.

    “I am not opposed to all wars,” Hart intoned, quoting a 2002 speech before the Illinois State Legislature in which Obama, then a state senator, had warned of the perils of invading Iraq. “I'm opposed to dumb wars.” Looking up from the page, Hart nodded his approval.

    “Very Burkian,” he said, referring to the 18th century Irish political writer Edmund Burke, hailed by many as the founder of modern conservatism. “Prudential. A sense of history, and what we're up against there.”

    Hart wore another campaign pin on his shirt: It displayed a now-familiar rising sun, and the words Obama '08.

    The 2008 presidential campaign has not been short on surprises, some of which have confounded the physics of the political universe: former Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Lieberman endorsing GOP front-runner John McCain, or Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Capitol Hill veteran, spurning the Clinton machine to support Obama's upstart candidacy.

    But even in this unsettled campaign season, the conversion of Hart -- speechwriter for two Republican presidents, former writer for the National Review, and patron saint of the notorious Dartmouth Review -- to Obama's banner is cause for a double take. Nancy Hart said she believes her husband is emblematic of a larger class of old-school Republicans disenchanted with the status quo.

    “People who are disgusted with Bush,” she said. “A lot of them are.”

    And so it is that Jeffrey Hart counts himself a member of Obama's “new American majority” -- a group of voters the Illinois senator says are fed up with the partisan excesses and wrangling of the last two decades and eager for a practical, cooperative approach to the issues that have divided Washington.

    “It turns out that these political parties are not always either liberal or conservative, Democratic or Republican,” Hart, a 77-year-old with thick white hair who lives in Lyme, said in an interview at his home yesterday. “The Democrat, under certain conditions, can be the conservative.”

  9. #39
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    “I am not opposed to all wars,” Hart intoned, quoting a 2002 speech before the Illinois State Legislature in which Obama, then a state senator, had warned of the perils of invading Iraq. “I'm opposed to dumb wars.” Looking up from the page, Hart nodded his approval.

    America: You're dumb.

    Iraq: No, you're dumb.

    Seriously...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    It's a good thing we never talked to the Soviets during the Cold War, too. Oh, wait ...
    /=

    “Once I’m elected, I want to organize a summit in the Muslim world, with all the heads of state, to have an honest discussion about ways to bridge the gap that grows every day between Muslims and the West.”


    Try harder.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There comes a time
    When we head a certain call
    When the world must come together as one
    There are people dying
    And it's time to lend a hand to life
    The greatest gift of all

    We can't go on
    Pretneding day by day
    That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
    We are all a part of
    God's great big family
    And the truth, you know love is all we need

    [Chorus]
    We are the world
    We are the children
    We are the ones who make a brighter day
    So let's start giving
    There's a choice we're making
    We're saving our own lives
    It's true we'll make a better day
    Just you and me

    Send them your heart
    So they'll know that someone cares
    And their lives will be stronger and free
    As God has shown us by turning stone to bread
    So we all must lend a helping hand

    [Chorus]
    We are the world
    We are the children
    We are the ones who make a brighter day
    So let's start giving
    There's a choice we're making
    We're saving our own lives
    It's true we'll make a better day
    Just you and me

    When you're down and out
    There seems no hope at all
    But if you just believe
    There's no way we can fall
    Well, well, well, well, let us realize
    That a change will only come
    When we stand together as one

    [Chorus]
    We are the world
    We are the children
    We are the ones who make a brighter day
    So let's start giving
    There's a choice we're making
    We're saving our own lives
    It's true we'll make a better day
    Just you and me


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  10. #40
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Looks as though some very old-fashioned conservatives are warming to the "empty suit":
    Yup. It seems there are lots of people who should know better that like Obama simply for the fact that he can read a good speech.

    I remember posting elsewhere that Obama was rated as the 10th most liberal member of the Senate in 2006. Well, the 2007 numbers are now in and last year, Obama was the number one liberal in the senate. But, you know, he makes good speeches- so I'm sure there won't be anything divisive about his administration.

    Personally, I think voters are being sold a bill of goods by Obama. But, they only have themselves to blame by basing their opinions of him almost entirely on a couple speeches and some soundbytes.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 02-01-2008 at 20:49.
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  11. #41
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
    Ron Paul is conservative, but not a zealous nutjob - he's learned how to evolve a brain. Hilary seems fake to me.


    You are the first person I have ever heard say that...
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  12. #42
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    He's still young and has a lot of promise. I can't wait to see how he'll do in 4-8 years. Remember how Regan started out, as a democrat. Obama just needs to grow up a little bit and gain some wisdom.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  13. #43
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    America: You're dumb.

    Iraq: No, you're dumb.

    Seriously...
    So calling a war "dumb" equates countries insulting each other? Whatever floats yer boat.

    Xiahou, it must be strangely pleasant to have nobody left to argue for, only people to argue against. Interestingly, when the votes are tabulated by a liberal group, Obama scores as one of the less liberal Senators. Funny how the numbers stack up depending on which partisan is frothing at the mouth.

    -edit-

    Latest daily tracking poll for the Dems:

    Last edited by Lemur; 02-01-2008 at 21:17.

  14. #44
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    According to the ORG, Obama would be president and in a break with tradition, Paul his VP?
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  15. #45
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Interestingly, the National Journal also claimed that John Kerry and John Edwards were the most liberal Senators ever. But that was when they were campaigning for President. I guess the need to haul out a convenient talking point changes as the years go by. Funny coincidence, isn't it? I guess Kerry got a lot less liberal in the intervening four years. Or maybe some clever little neo-con is cooking the figures, perhaps?

  16. #46
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    So calling a war "dumb" equates countries insulting each other? Whatever floats yer boat.
    Come on, keep up. That's the kind of language he used in the senate, imagine him taking it to the white house. Of course, if we had just sat down and talked to Hussein, I'm sure everything would have turned out peachy.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  17. #47
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Interestingly, the National Journal also claimed that John Kerry and John Edwards were the most liberal Senators ever. But that was when they were campaigning for President. I guess the need to haul out a convenient talking point changes as the years go by. Funny coincidence, isn't it? I guess Kerry got a lot less liberal in the intervening four years. Or maybe some clever little neo-con is cooking the figures, perhaps?
    I love how you came up with a liberal blog to counter the claim of the National Journal. As a frothing at the mouth conservative rag, it's managed to win numerous National Magazine Awards as a non-partisan, Washington insider publication. If it makes you feel better about drinking the Obama kool-aid, you can believe what you want though.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Q: What's the purpose of the vote ratings?

    Green: To see how House and Senate members compare with each other on an ideological scale.

    Q: How do you pick the votes?

    Green: Toward the end of every year, several National Journal reporters and editors separately sift through all of the year's roll-call votes to identify ones that might be appropriate for the vote ratings. The reporters and editors then meet and make the final selections.

    Q: How do you determine which votes are "appropriate"?

    Green: First we try to identify the most important House and Senate votes of the year. Then we look for votes that show ideological distinctions between members, even if the votes aren't necessarily pivotal. Finally, we try to make sure that a wide range of issue areas are represented, such as abortion, the budget, energy, environment, immigration, Iraq, national security, and taxation.

    Q: Can you give an example of votes that show ideological distinctions?

    Green: The Senate voted last year on whether to repeal the federal minimum wage. The outcome of the vote was never in doubt -- only 28 senators voted for the repeal; 69 voted against it. But the vote seemed to us to be worth including in the ratings because it showed the ideological differences between senators who thought that setting a minimum wage is an appropriate function of the federal government (what we termed the liberal position) and those who thought that such matters should be left to the states (what we termed the conservative position).

    Q: Why don't you base the ratings on all of the roll-call votes, rather than just some of them?

    Green: Last year there were 1,186 roll-call votes in the House and 442 in the Senate. Many of them are on relatively minor matters and are noncontroversial. Other votes fall along regional or other nonideological lines. We think that a rating based on key votes is more informative.

    Q: When you selected the Senate votes for 2007, did you know that Sen. Obama was going to have the most liberal rating?

    Green: No. In fact, we didn't even know whether he would qualify for a score. Under our system, a member of Congress gets a liberal and conservative score in each of three broad issue areas -- economic policy, social policy, and foreign policy. A member must participate in at least half of the votes in a category to get a score in that category. If a member gets a score in all three categories, he or she also gets a composite score, essentially an average of the three scores. If a member doesn't get a score in all three categories, he or she doesn't get a composite score. Obama and other presidential candidates were absent a fair amount in 2007, so we weren't sure if they would get composite scores. Obama's composite score is the basis for his label as the most liberal senator in 2007.

    Q: When you selected the votes, were you keeping track of how Obama (or any other member of Congress) had voted?

    Green: No.

    Q: What happens after you select the votes?

    Green: Polidata, a nonpartisan political data-analysis firm, downloaded lists of members' votes on our key votes from the House and Senate websites. We sent the lists to the Brookings Institution, which is under contract with National Journal to compute the vote ratings, based on a methodology that we devised.

    Q: What does Brookings do?

    Green: The Information Technology Services division of Brookings subjects each vote to something called a principal-components analysis. That's a statistical procedure designed to determine the degree to which each vote resembled other votes in the same category (the same members tending to vote together). Each roll-call vote was assigned a weight from 1 (lowest) to 3 (highest) based on the degree to which it correlated with other votes in the same issue area. A higher weight means that a vote was more strongly correlated with other votes and was therefore a better test of economic, social, or foreign-policy ideology. Members were then ranked from the most liberal to the most conservative in each issue area.

    Q: Who came up with that process?

    Green: The ratings system was first devised in 1981 under the direction of William Schneider, a political analyst and commentator, and a contributing editor to National Journal.

    Q: Does Obama's rating mean that he's the most liberal senator?

    Green: The rating is just for his votes in 2007. For his votes in 2006, he was ranked the 10th-most-liberal senator. For his votes in 2005, he was ranked the 16th-most-liberal senator.

    Q: How often did Obama vote the liberal position in 2007?

    Green: He participated in 66 of the 99 votes used for the ratings. He voted the liberal position 65 times.

    Q: Aren't the labels "liberal" and "conservative" open to interpretation?

    Green: Yes. On some matters, most people would agree on what constitutes a liberal position or a conservative position. On other matters, it's not as clear-cut. Some critics of the war in Iraq, for instance, argue that opposition to the war is a conservative position because it reflects a belief in limited government involvement in international affairs. But in National Journal's ratings, votes in opposition to the war are categorized as liberal. Labels such as "liberal" and "conservative" are just that -- labels. They are subject to debate. But as long as National Journal thinks there's a broad consensus about what these labels mean, we'll continue using them in our vote ratings.

    Q: Why are you releasing the scores for Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton before you release the scores for all other members of Congress?

    Green: Back in December, we decided that we would publish the ratings of the presidential candidates as soon as they became available, rather than wait until our annual Vote Ratings issue on March 8. We thought it would be irresponsible to keep those scores under wraps during the height of the presidential primary season.

    Q: Can't you be accused of trying to influence the Super Tuesday election results by releasing the ratings now?

    Green: The Super Tuesday timing is coincidental. We received the final vote ratings from Brookings on January 25. We decided to publish the Obama and Clinton scores in the next issue of National Journal. We spent the time between January 25 and January 31, when the magazine was sent to the printer, double-checking the ratings and preparing stories and tables about them.

    Q: You keep referring to Obama and Clinton. What about John McCain?

    Green: He didn't get a composite score for 2007 because he missed too many votes.

    Q: Are you concerned that National Journal's 2007 rating of Obama as the most liberal senator will become an issue in the presidential campaign?

    Green: We can't control how the vote ratings are used in the campaign. One reason for this Q&A is to try to anticipate possible questions and be as open as possible about how the ratings were determined.

    Q: Didn't you go through the same situation four years ago?

    Green: Yes. In 2004, National Journal rated Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry as the most liberal senator in 2003. The rating quickly became a talking point in the campaign, with President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and other Republicans using it to attack Kerry. For his part, Kerry called the rating a "laughable characterization." He said it was "absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life."

    Q: Have you made any changes in the vote rating system since then?

    Green: We made one change. We decided that in order for a member of Congress to receive a composite rating, he or she needed to vote often enough to qualify for scores in each of the three issue categories-economic policy, social policy, and foreign policy-that we measure. In Kerry's case, he didn't vote often enough in 2003 to merit scores in the social-policy and foreign-affairs categories. His overall ranking was based on his score in the economic category.

    Q: Why did you make the change?

    Green: We didn't want to continue giving composite scores to members of Congress who missed most of the votes we selected.

    Q: Why didn't you make the change before Kerry's rating was announced?

    Green: The method we used to give Kerry a composite score was the method we had used in the past. To change the rules in the middle of the game, so to speak, after we learned Kerry's ranking, would have exposed us to charges of manipulating our rules for partisan reasons. We instituted the change the following year, before we knew the scores of any lawmakers.

    Q: Do you think that the National Journal vote ratings are a valid way to judge a member of Congress?

    Green: It's one way to assess a member of Congress, but by no means the only way. It's important to look at a member's effectiveness, character, judgment, and policy proposals, among other things. It's also valuable to look at vote ratings from other organizations -- from publications such as Congressional Quarterly and interest groups such as the League of Conservation Voters, the American Civil Liberties Union, and the American Conservative Union -- to get a rounded view. link


    Now, Lemur. If you stopped to think about it at all- instead of chalking it up to a dubious bias claim, what other reason could there be for a presidential candidates record changing? Maybe it could be at least partly due to the fact that Obama has missed several rated votes while campaigning, but has made a point of showing up to vote for issues that appeal to the Democrat base.

    Nah, they're probably just partisan hacks....
    Last edited by Xiahou; 02-01-2008 at 22:20.
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  18. #48

    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Come on, keep up. That's the kind of language he used in the senate, imagine him taking it to the white house. Of course, if we had just sat down and talked to Hussein, I'm sure everything would have turned out peachy.
    Did you miss the news article where it turned out we could have bribed Hussein out of power? Would that have been better or worse than our current war?


    Yup. It seems there are lots of people who should know better that like Obama simply for the fact that he can read a good speech.

    ***
    I remember posting elsewhere that Obama was rated as the 10th most liberal member of the Senate in 2006. Well, the 2007 numbers are now in and last year, Obama was the number one liberal in the senate. But, you know, he makes good speeches- so I'm sure there won't be anything divisive about his administration.
    Yes--as you say yourself, good speeches have gained him support in the election, and so they will make his presidency less divisive. Also, liberal isn't a bad word.

    Here's a summary of his policies btw:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Economic and social policy

    Obama's current economic advisors are Austan Goolsbee of the University of Chicago and Jeffrey Liebman of Harvard University.[1]

    His 2006 rating by the Almanac of American Politics (2008) on Economic Policy is 87% liberal, 0% conservative. (2005: 87% liberal, 12% conservative.)[2]

    Obama wrote: "we should be asking ourselves what mix of policies will lead to a dynamic free market and widespread economic security, entrepreneurial innovation and upward mobility [...] we should be guided by what works."[3] Speaking before the National Press Club in April 2005, he defended the New Deal social welfare policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt, associating Republican proposals to establish private accounts for Social Security with Social Darwinism.[4]

    [edit] Corporate governance

    On April 20, 2007, Obama introduced in the Senate a bill (Shareholder Vote on Executive Compensation Act - S. 1181) requiring public companies to give shareholders an annual nonbinding vote on executive compensation, popularly called "Say on Pay." A companion bill introduced by Rep. Barney Frank passed the House the same day.[5] Several corporations voluntarily have begun to give shareholders such a vote because of concerns about excessive CEO salaries. Some critics have said that the federal law would interfere with the traditional state oversight over corporate governance.[6]

    [edit] Education

    During an October 2004 debate, Obama stated that he opposed education vouchers for use at private schools because he believes they would undermine public schools.[7]

    In a July 2007 address to the National Education Association, Obama supported merit pay for teachers, to be based on standards to be developed "with teachers."[8] Obama also called for higher pay for teachers.[8] Obama's plan is estimated to cost $18 billion annually and would be partially funded by cutting funding to NASA. The bulk of the cuts would be derived from delaying the Constellation program for five years.[9]

    [edit] Energy policy

    Obama and other Senators introduced the BioFuels Security Act in 2007. "It's time for Congress to realize what farmers in America's heartland have known all along - that we have the capacity and ingenuity to decrease our dependence on foreign oil by growing our own fuel," Obama said.[10] In a May 2006 letter to President Bush, he joined four other midwest farming state Senators in calling for the preservation of a $0.54-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol.[11]

    Regarding the domestic use of Nuclear power, Obama has expressed support: "...it is reasonable – and realistic – for nuclear power to remain on the table for consideration."[12]

    Obama and other Senators introduced a bill in 2007 to promote the development of commercially viable plug-in hybrids and other electric-drive vehicles in order to shift away from petroleum fuels and "toward much cleaner – and cheaper – electricity for transportation".[13] Similar legislation is now in effect in the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007[14] Obama proposes that the US Government invest in such developments using revenue generated from an auction-based cap-and-trade or emissions trading program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.[15]

    Barack Obama's 2008 Presidential Campaign complete energy policy is available on his website. It includes:

    * Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent from 1990 levels by 2050
    * Invest in a Clean Energy Future
    * Support Next Generation Biofuels
    * Set America on Path to Oil Independence
    * Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030
    * Restore U.S. Leadership on Climate Change

    [edit] Health care

    On January 24, 2007 Obama spoke about his position on health care at Families USA, a health care advocacy group. Obama said, "The time has come for universal health care in America [...] I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country." Obama went on to say that he believed that it was wrong that forty-seven million Americans are uninsured, noting that taxpayers already pay over $15 billion annually to care for the uninsured.[16] Obama cites cost as the reason so many Americans are without health insurance, and claims his health care plan would cut the cost of insurance more than any of his Democratic rivals' plans in the 2008 Presidential race.[17]

    [edit] Network neutrality

    In a June 2006 podcast, Obama expressed support for telecommunications legislation to protect network neutrality on the Internet, saying: "It is because the Internet is a neutral platform that I can put out this podcast and transmit it over the Internet without having to go through any corporate media middleman. I can say what I want without censorship or without having to pay a special charge. But the big telephone and cable companies want to change the Internet as we know it."[18]

    [edit] Taxation

    Obama spoke out in June 2006 against making recent, temporary estate tax cuts permanent, calling the cuts a "Paris Hilton" tax break for "billionaire heirs and heiresses."[19] Speaking in November 2006 to members of Wake Up Wal-Mart, a union-backed campaign group, Obama said: "You gotta pay your workers enough that they can actually not only shop at Wal-Mart, but ultimately send their kids to college and save for retirement."[20] Obama has also proposed his own tax plan, including $80 billion in tax cuts for the poor and middle class.[21]

    [edit] Budget deficit

    In The Audacity of Hope, Obama advocates responding to the "precarious budget situation" by eliminating "tax credits that have outlived their usefulness", closing corporate tax loopholes, and restoring the PAYGO policy that prohibits increases in federal spending without a way to compensate for the lost revenue. [4].

    In January 2008, a comprehensive analysis by the National Taxpayers Union found that Obamas presidential campaign proposals would increase the federal budget by $287 billion.[22]

    [edit] Lobbying

    Obama has spoken out numerous times against the influence of lobbying in the United States.[23][24]

    However, Obama has cooperated with lobbyists in some cases while in Senate.[25]

    [edit] Foreign policy

    Barack Obama's foreign policy advisers include Mark Lippert, Anthony Lake, Susan Rice, Gregory Craig, Dennis McDonough, Daniel Shapiro, Scott Gration, Sarah Sewall, Ivo Daalder, Jeffrey Bader, Mark Brzezinski, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Richard Clarke, Roger Cressey, Richard Danzig, Philip Gordon, Lawrence Korb, James Ludes, Robert Malley, Bruce Riedel, Dennis Ross, Mona Sutphen, and Samantha Power.[26][27][28]

    His 2006 rating by the Almanac of American Politics (2008) on Foreign Policy is 85% liberal, 12% conservative. (2005: 76% liberal, 15% conservative.)[29]

    His first major speech on foreign policy was delivered on April 23, 2007 to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. He identified the problems the current foreign policy has caused, and the five ways America can lead again, focused on "common security", "common humanity", and remaining "a beacon of freedom and justice for the world":[30]

    * "Bringing a responsible end" to the war in Iraq and refocusing on the broader region.
    * "Building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it."
    * "Marshalling a global effort" to secure, destroy, and stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction.
    * "Rebuild and construct the alliances and partnerships necessary to meet common challenges and confront common threats," including climate change.
    * "Invest in our common humanity" through foreign aid and supporting the "pillars of a sustainable democracy – a strong legislature, an independent judiciary, the rule of law, a vibrant civil society, a free press, and an honest police force."

    During the speech Obama called for an expansion of the United States Armed Forces "by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines", an idea introduced by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

    In an address on national security to the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars on August 1, 2007, Obama stated that as President he would consider military action in Pakistan in order to attack al-Qaeda, even if the Pakistani government did not give approval.[31] Obama said, "I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."[32] He also said "As President, I would deploy at least two additional brigades to Afghanistan to re-enforce our counter-terrorism operations".[33] Tariq Ali, a British-Pakistani historian, criticized Obama for his comments regarding attacking terrorists inside Pakistan and stated "Were the United States to start bombing raids inside Pakistan, there would be a massive increase of support for the jihadi fundamentalist groups in that country, and it would weaken not just secular political groups, it would weaken even the moderate religious parties who are not associated with that."[34]

    [edit] Arab-Israeli conflict

    Referring to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in January 2006, Obama denounced Hamas while praising former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. At a meeting with then Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom on the eve of Hamas' sweeping election victory,[35] Obama stated that Sharon's role in the conflict had always been "absolutely important and constructive."[36] At a meeting with Palestinian students two days later, Obama stated opposition to Hamas in favor of rival party Fatah, noting his desire to "consolidate behind a single government with a single authority that can then negotiate as a reliable partner with Israel." In a comment aimed at Hamas, he said that "the US will always side with Israel if Israel is threatened with destruction."[37]

    Obama was also a cosponsor of the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006, which in part calls on "members of the international community to avoid contact with and refrain from financially supporting the terrorist organization Hamas until it agrees to recognize Israel, renounce violence, disarm, and accept prior agreements, including the Roadmap."[38] However, on March 11, 2007, Obama said that "if we could get some movement among Palestinian leadership, what I'd like to see is a loosening up of some of the restrictions on providing aid directly to the Palestinian people."[39]

    He defended Israel's response to the Zar'it-Shtula incident on August 22 in an interview with Tim Russert, saying, "I don't think there is any nation that would not have reacted the way Israel did after two soldiers had been snatched. I support Israel's response to take some action in protecting themselves." A month earlier he said, "I don't fault Israel for wanting to rid their border with Lebanon from those Katyusha missiles that can fire in and harm Israeli citizens, so I think that any cease fire would have to be premised on the removal of those missiles."[40]

    Speaking to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee on 2 March 2007, Obama called Israel "our strongest ally in the region," and stated: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs." On the Palestinian Authority's new unity government, Obama said: "We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month."[41]

    Obama has also discussed in general terms some thoughts about Palestinians vis-a-vis the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On March 11, 2007 Obama said: "Nobody is suffering more than the Palestinian people."[42] On June 4, 2007 Obama stated that "resolution [to the conflict] and a better life for all people" "is something that can be achieved, but it's going to require some soul-searching on the Palestinian side. They have to recognize Israel's right to exist; they have to renounce violence and terrorism as a tool to achieve their political ends; they have to abide by agreements. In that context, I think the Israelis will gladly say, 'Let's move forward negotiations that would allow them to live side by side with the Palestinians in peace and security.'"[43]

    [edit] Immigration

    Obama supports a guest worker program.[44] Obama has said that he "will not support any bill that does not provide [an] earned path to citizenship for the undocumented population."

    Obama does not believe that twelve million illegal immigrants can be sent back. He said "It's not going to happen. We're not going to go round them up ... We should give them a pathway to citizenship."[45]

    In September 2006, Obama voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles (1,100 km) of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.[46]

    In January 2008 Obama campaigned on a policy to grant drivers licenses to illegal immigrants.[47]

    [edit] Iran

    During his 2004 Senate campaign, Obama stated that he had not ruled out military action against Iran. In a meeting with the Chicago Tribune editorial board, Obama stated: "The big question is going to be, if Iran is resistant to these pressures, including economic sanctions, which I hope will be imposed if they do not cooperate, at what point are we going to take military action, if any?" Obama stressed that he would only use force as a last resort.[48] Obama has not declared a change in this stance since the 2004 campaign. In 2006, he called on Iran to "take some ownership for creating some stability" in Iraq.[49]

    In an interview with Tim Russert on October 22, 2006 Obama said, "I think that military options have to be on the table when you're dealing with rogue states that have shown constant hostility towards the United States. The point that I would make, though, is that we have not explored all of our options...We have not explored any kind of dialogue with either Iran or North Korea, and I think that has been a mistake. As a consequence, we have almost no leverage over them."[50]

    Speaking to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee on 2 March 2007, Obama stated that he regards Iran's government as "a threat to all of us," stating that the US "should take no option, including military action, off the table, sustained and aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions should be our primary means to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons."[51] Diplomacy would include "more determined U.S. diplomacy at the United Nations," "harnessing the collective power of our friends in Europe who are Iran's major trading partners," and "a cooperative strategy with Gulf States who supply Iran with much of the energy resources it needs."[52] he formulated a strategy of "direct engagement with Iran similar to the meetings we conducted with the Soviets at the height of the Cold War."[53]

    Obama has criticized Hillary Clinton for voting in favor of classifying the Iranian Quds Force as a terrorist organization, saying the measure could enable Bush to launch military action against Iran,[54] stating that he would have voted against it if he had not been in New Hampshire campaigning.[55]

    [edit] Iraq

    Senator Obama was an early opponent of Bush administration policies on Iraq, when other Democratic leaders supported the legislation that led to the war. Obama was not in the United States Senate, and was therefore unable to vote during the Iraq Resolution of 11 October 2002, authorizing the use of force against Iraq. During a fall 2002 anti-war rally at Chicago's Federal Plaza, while still an Illinois State Senator, and in a speech alongside Jesse Jackson, Obama stated: "I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. [...] You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings."[56] Speaking before the Chicago Council on Global Affairs in November 2006, he said: "The days of using the war on terror as a political football are over. [...] It is time to give Iraqis their country back, and it is time to refocus America's efforts on the wider struggle yet to be won." In his speech Obama also called for a phased withdrawal of American troops starting in 2007, and an opening of diplomatic dialogue with Iraq's neighbors, Syria and Iran.[57]

    On January 30, 2007, Obama introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 into Congress. Among other things, the Act calls for capping the level of troops in Iraq at January 2007 levels, and for commencing a phased redeployment of US forces from Iraq "with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008, a date that is consistent with the expectation of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group.[58][59] Announcing the act on the Senate floor, Obama stated that "no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war."[60]

    However, Obama has not consistently supported cutting funding to the war as a way to end U.S. involvement in the conflict.[61]

    [edit] Pakistan

    On August 1 2007 Obama declared in his foreign policy speech that the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, with or without the consent of the Pakistani government. He claimed that if elected, "If we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will".[62] On the same day in response, then-White House press secretary Tony Snow highlighted the policy's shift from the position established by the Bush Administration, he said: "Our approach to Pakistan is one that not only respects the sovereignty of Pakistan as a sovereign government, but is also designed to work in a way where we are working in cooperation with the local government,"[63]

    ABC News described the policy speech as "counterintuitive", and commented on how "one of the more liberal candidates in the race, is proposing a geopolitical posture that is more aggressive than that of President Bush"[64]

    After weeks of discourse surrounding the policy, Obama said there was "misreporting" of his comments, claiming that, "I never called for an invasion of Pakistan or Afghanistan." He clarified that rather than a surge in the number of troops in Iraq, there needs to be a "diplomatic surge" and that if there were "actionable intelligence reports" showing al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, the U.S. troops as a last resort should enter and try to capture terrorists. That would happen, he added, only if "the Pakistani government was unable or unwilling" to go after the terrorists.[65]

    [edit] Social policy

    His 2006 rating by the Almanac of American Politics (2008) on Social Policy is 77% liberal, 21% conservative. (2005: 77% liberal, 18% conservative.)[66]

    [edit] Abortion and contraception

    In his write-in response to a 1998 survey, Obama stated his abortion position as: "Abortions should be legally available in accordance with Roe v. Wade."[67]

    While serving in the Illinois Senate, Obama had a 100 percent rating from the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council[68] due to his consistent voting in favor of legalized abortion, family planning services, and having female contraceptives covered by health insurance.[69] Since his election to the United States Senate Obama has maintained a 100 percent rating from Planned Parenthood (as of 2007) and NARAL (as of 2005).[70] While serving in the Illinois State Senate, Obama opposed the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which requires medical care for aborted fetuses that survive. He argued that the legislation's wording defined the fetus as a child — a measure he said would "essentially bar abortions."[71]

    [edit] Environment

    Obama has taken the stance that global warming is human-caused, and that it must be addressed. He has a record of supporting environmentally friendly bills.

    The issue of climate change is one that we ignore at our own peril. There may still be disputes about exactly how much is naturally occurring, but what we can be scientifically certain of is that our continued use of fossil fuels is pushing us to a point of no return. And unless we free ourselves from a dependence on these fossil fuels and chart a new course on energy in this country, we are condemning future generations to global catastrophe.[72]

    He has pledged to cut greenhouse gas emissions 80% below 1990 levels by 2050 by creating a market-based cap-and-trade system.[73] Obama also has plans for improving air and water quality through reduced pollution levels.[citation needed]

    [edit] LGBT issues

    Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment which would have defined marriage as between one man and one woman, but personally believes that marriage is defined as a religious bond between a man and a woman. He supports civil unions that would carry equal legal standing to that of marriage for same-sex couples, but believes that decisions about the title of marriage should be left to the states.[74][75][76]

    Obama stated on 15 March 2007, that "I do not agree...that homosexuality is immoral."[77] During the 23 July 2007 CNN/Youtube debate, Obama further stated that "... we've got to make sure that everybody is equal under the law. And the civil unions that I proposed would be equivalent in terms of making sure that all the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for same-sex couples as well as for heterosexual couples."[78]

    Obama was recently criticized for inviting allegedly anti-gay individuals Reverend Donnie McClurkin, Mary Mary and Reverend Hezekiah Walker, to participate in a three-day gospel music campaign tour called "Embrace the Courage", as part of Obama's "40 Days of Faith and Family" campaign in South Carolina.[79] The Obama campaign responded to criticism in a press release, saying, "I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as president of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."[79] For events held Sunday, 28 October 2007, Obama added Reverend Andy Sidden, an openly gay pastor.[80]

    [edit] Gun control

    As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama supported banning the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic firearms, increasing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms and requiring manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.[81] He has also supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.[82] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month. He also voted against a 2004 measure allowing a self-defense exception for people charged with violating local weapons bans by using a gun in their home.[83] Although out of line with most of his anti-gun voting history, in 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1.[84] Illinois allows lawmakers to abstain from issues by voting present instead of yes or no.

    Obama was also a board member[85] of the Joyce Foundation which funds and maintains several gun control organizations in the United States.

    He supported several gun control measures, including restricting the purchase of firearms at gun shows and the reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[86] While in the US Senate, Obama has voted against legislation protecting firearm manufacturers from liability.[87]. Obama did vote in favor of the 2006 Vitter Amendment to prohibit the confiscation of lawful firearms during an emergency or major disaster, which passed 84-16.[88]

    He is rated F by the National Rifle Association.[89] The NRA describes the recipient of its F grade as a "true enemy of gun owners’ rights."[90]

    [edit] Death penalty

    Obama believes the death penalty is used too frequently and inconsistently. However he is still in favor of it for cases in which "the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage."[91] Speaking as a state senator about the Illinois legislature's constant additions to the list of factors that render a defendant eligible for the death penalty, Obama said, "We certainly don't think that we should be... have this laundry list that does not make any distinctions between the run-of-the-mill armed robbery that results in death, and systematic killings by a terrorist organization. And I think essentially what the reduction of aggravating factors does is it says, 'Here's a narrower set of crimes that we think potentially at least could deserve the death penalty.'"[92]

    [edit] Civil liberties

    Obama voted in favor of the 2006 version of the Patriot Act.[93] He voted against the Military Commissions Act of 2006[94] and later voted to restore habeas corpus to those detained by the U.S. (which had been stripped by the Military Commissions Act).[93] He has advocated closing the Guantanamo Bay detention camp, but has not supported two specific bills that would have done so.[95] Obama opposes the use of torture[96] and warrantless domestic wiretaps by the U.S.[97] He voted against the Flag Desecration Amendment in 2006, arguing that flag burning didn't justify a constitutional amendment, but said that he would support a law banning flag burning.[98] The ACLU has given Obama a score of 80% on Civil liberty issues.[99]

    [edit] Religion

    Obama has encouraged Democrats to reach out to evangelicals and other church-going people, saying, "if we truly hope to speak to people where they’re at—to communicate our hopes and values in a way that’s relevant to their own—we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse."[100][101]

    [edit] Stem cell research

    Obama supports embryonic stem cell research and was a co-sponsor[102] of the 2005 Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act which was passed by both houses of Congress but vetoed by President George W. Bush. Obama condemned Bush's veto, saying "Democrats want this bill to pass. Conservative, pro-life Republicans want this bill to pass. By large margins, the American people want this bill to pass. It is only the White House standing in the way of progress - standing in the way of so many potential cures." He also voted in favor of the 2007 bill for embryonic stem cell research that was passed but was also vetoed by President Bush.[103]

    [edit] Marijuana decriminalization

    Barack Obama opposes legalization of marijuana, but supports decriminalization, which eliminates jail time and other penalties, including a criminal record, for possession of a small amount of marijuana.[104] Obama's campaign has said that as president, he "will review drug sentences to see where we can be smarter on crime and reduce the blind and counterproductive sentencing of non-violent offenders, and revisit instances where drug rehabilitation may be more appropriate."


    He's said just as much as any other candidate about them during the debates. I recall one question where hillary's answer was that she "believed in fiscal responsability" and he concisely stated what he would actually do.

  19. #49
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Nah, they're probably just partisan hacks....
    Out of the mouths of babes ...

    -edit-

    Interesting that any vote opposing the war in Iraq is, by definition, liberal. I also note that a vote to create an independent ethics oversight office was scored as liberal, even though it was co-sponsored by Lindsey Graham, R-SC.

    Sorry, dude, but it all looks a bit fishy, especially two presidential campaigns in a row. Teh most libral person EVAR! Run! Run! Run!

    Oh, and when you went into your little slap about Obama Kool-Aid, you forgot to get me for supporting McCain, too. Since you support nobody at all, you're free to attack as you like. Don't leave ammo on the ground, "conservative."
    Last edited by Lemur; 02-02-2008 at 01:03.

  20. #50
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Interesting that any vote opposing the war in Iraq is, by definition, liberal. I also note that a vote to create an independent ethics oversight office was scored as liberal, even though it was co-sponsored by Lindsey Graham, R-SC.
    I'm sorry, but do you really have any idea how foolish that sounds? You're basically saying that if a Republican attaches his name to a bill, it must be conservative? I'm not even going to waste the time to list examples of how wrong that is.

    This is truly amusing to me though- what with your previous accusations of so-called ideologues around here that dismiss anything they don't agree with as biased. I'm glad you're above it though....

    Oh, and when you went into your little slap about Obama Kool-Aid, you forgot to get me for supporting McCain, too. Since you support nobody at all, you're free to attack as you like. Don't leave ammo on the ground, "conservative."
    So saying that you also support McCain has what exactly to do with you supporting Obama? My whole point was that Obama is selling himself as some sort of great moderate unifier, when his policies and positions are anything but. I don't support any candidate at the moment- as I've said often, I think they all stink for various reasons. I'm sorry if that doesn't leave much room for you to pick on me- but it's just how I feel.

    If it would be somehow cathartic for you, feel free to pretend I support any candidate of your choosing so you can slam me for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    Yes--as you say yourself, good speeches have gained him support in the election, and so they will make his presidency less divisive. Also, liberal isn't a bad word.
    If you generally support "liberal" policies , Obama looks like a great candidate. My whole point is that he is a liberal (moreso than most) and that he's doing his best to hide the fact in his campaigning.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  21. #51
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Well, Xiahou, it's clear that you will never support any of the people running for President, just heap varying degrees of scorn on the ideologically impure. You should be quite comfortable in the upcoming contests, with nothing at stake, no candidate to support, and nothing to defend. Sounds relaxing, and intellectually restful.

    -edit-

    Are you finally having your own Ann Coulter moment?
    Last edited by Lemur; 02-02-2008 at 02:46.

  22. #52
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    By November, there are likely to be a good percentage of folks like Xiahou who just don't like either of the major party candidates, or whatever local third-party guy managed to get on the ballot.

    So: Is it time to consider a nationally-mandatory "None of the Above" line on all ballots?

    What would happen if 'NotA' got more votes?

    Doesn't Australia do that? How's it work?

    Or should we all just do our duty, hold our noses, and vote for the least disagreeable?
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  23. #53
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    My hatred of McCain is subsiding. I will vote for a Republican in the November election - but I must say; I usually bring my entire family, my girlfriends family, my friends and (most of) my coworkers with me when I vote (I am actually a very persuasive speaker in spite of my inability to convey my opinions in print). This time I don't have the passion. I just find it to be a shame that Mitt won't be in the White House - I believe that he would do tremendous good for us.

    This change of opinion has not occurred because of hearing McCain, but because I swished it around in my mouth for a while and realized that, despite the taste, it was more swallow able than a Giuliani, Clinton or Obama.

    My only real agendas for this term are:

    -Lower taxes for Individuals and companies. Bigger tax breaks for companies that hire U.S. citizens predominantly. Incentives for technological innovation. Slash spending.

    -Private health insurance for everybody with minimal to zero tax increase. Preferably on the State level with people encouraged to buy more and more comprehensive plans.

    -A Strict constitutionalist judiciary (overturn Roe v Wade). Insightful and cautiously progressive legislature.

    -Walk softly carry a big stick. Get our guns/butter ratio back in order. Stay in Iraq until they can stand on their own 2 feet.


    That's pretty much it.

    I will bet money that Xiahou votes G.O.P. in November...
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 02-02-2008 at 04:04.
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
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  24. #54
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Sorry, dude, but it all looks a bit fishy, especially two presidential campaigns in a row. Teh most libral person EVAR! Run! Run! Run!

    It is quite funny that this line came out about Kerry 4 years ago, not that it makes it untrue just seems a bit of a coincidence
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  25. #55
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    You know what's funny? Romney is leading Republicans in Mass with 57%. McCain has 41% of Republicans in his home state.

    The people who know them best, huh?

    If that jerk Huckabee would just crash and burn, Romney would have a much easier time. Huckabee is just doing this to screw Romney - he has no chance of winning the nomination - I bet that Huck has been the other guy on the McCain ticket since the beginning. Nobody would campaign this hard unless they they either saw the constituency waiting to support them or they knew that they would have a room at the White House.

    Which one is Huck?
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 02-02-2008 at 16:35.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
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  26. #56
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    A discussion of yet more Republicans who either support or endorse the "empty suit." Now it's fair to say that no Democrat will ever calm the raging waters of the most extreme right-wing partisans, but it's nice to see some crossing over, in much the same way it was cool to see Reagan Democrats.

    Barack + GOP = ‘Obamacans’

    Some prominent Republicans have caught Obama fever.

    By Richard Wolffe | Newsweek Web Exclusive
    Feb 1, 2008 | Updated: 7:02 p.m. ET Feb 1, 2008

    Susan Eisenhower is more than just another disappointed Republican. She is also Ike's granddaughter and a dedicated member of the party who has urged her fellow Republicans in the past to stick with the GOP. But now Eisenhower, who runs an international consulting firm, is endorsing Barack Obama. She has no plans to officially leave the Republican party. But in Eisenhower's view, Obama is the only candidate who can build a national consensus on the issues most important to her--energy, global warming, an aging population and America's standing in the world.

    "Barack Obama will really be in a singular position to attract moderate Republicans," she told newsweek. "I wanted to do what many people did for my grandfather in 1952. He was hugely aided in his quest for the presidency by Democrats for Eisenhower. There's a long and fine tradition of crossover voters."

    Eisenhower is one of a small but symbolically powerful group of what Obama recently called "Obamacans"--disaffected Republicans who have drifted away from their party just as Eisenhower Democrats did and, more recently, Reagan Democrats in the 1980s. They include lifelong Republican Tricia Moseley, a former staffer for the late Sen. Strom Thurmond, the one-time segregationist from South Carolina. Now a high-school teacher, Moseley says she was attracted to Obama's positions on education and the economy.

    Former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough, who anchors MSNBC's "Morning Joe," says many conservative friends--including Bush officials and evangelical Christians--sent him enthusiastic e-mails after seeing Obama's post-election speeches in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. "He doesn't attack Republicans, he doesn't attack whites and he never seems to draw these dividing lines that Bill Clinton [does]," Scarborough told NEWSWEEK.

    Plenty of Republicans are immune to the Obama swoon, of course. The Republican National Committee has emphasized a recent analysis suggesting that Obama had the most liberal voting record in the Senate last year. But even small numbers of Obamacans can help reinforce the candidate's unity message and bolster his "electability" argument. In Iowa, the campaign identified more than 700 registered Republicans who committed to caucusing for Obama (although staffers say they don't yet know how many showed up to vote). And in the Super Tuesday state of Colorado, campaign staffers say they found more than 500 erstwhile Republicans who were willing to switch their party registration.

    Even if Republicans don't convert in more significant numbers, the friendly outreach may blunt the ferocity of GOP attacks. One senior aide to John McCain has already said he's reluctant to attack Obama: last year, McCain's adman Mark McKinnon wrote an internal memo promising not to tape ads against the Illinois Democrat if he were the nominee.

  27. #57
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    A discussion of yet more Republicans who either support or endorse the "empty suit." Now it's fair to say that no Democrat will ever calm the raging waters of the most extreme right-wing partisans, but it's nice to see some crossing over, in much the same way it was cool to see Reagan Democrats.

    Barack + GOP = ‘Obamacans’

    Some prominent Republicans have caught Obama fever.

    By Richard Wolffe | Newsweek Web Exclusive
    Feb 1, 2008 | Updated: 7:02 p.m. ET Feb 1, 2008

    Susan Eisenhower is more than just another disappointed Republican. She is also Ike's granddaughter and a dedicated member of the party who has urged her fellow Republicans in the past to stick with the GOP. But now Eisenhower, who runs an international consulting firm, is endorsing Barack Obama. She has no plans to officially leave the Republican party. But in Eisenhower's view, Obama is the only candidate who can build a national consensus on the issues most important to her--energy, global warming, an aging population and America's standing in the world.

    "Barack Obama will really be in a singular position to attract moderate Republicans," she told newsweek. "I wanted to do what many people did for my grandfather in 1952. He was hugely aided in his quest for the presidency by Democrats for Eisenhower. There's a long and fine tradition of crossover voters."

    Eisenhower is one of a small but symbolically powerful group of what Obama recently called "Obamacans"--disaffected Republicans who have drifted away from their party just as Eisenhower Democrats did and, more recently, Reagan Democrats in the 1980s. They include lifelong Republican Tricia Moseley, a former staffer for the late Sen. Strom Thurmond, the one-time segregationist from South Carolina. Now a high-school teacher, Moseley says she was attracted to Obama's positions on education and the economy.

    Former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough, who anchors MSNBC's "Morning Joe," says many conservative friends--including Bush officials and evangelical Christians--sent him enthusiastic e-mails after seeing Obama's post-election speeches in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. "He doesn't attack Republicans, he doesn't attack whites and he never seems to draw these dividing lines that Bill Clinton [does]," Scarborough told NEWSWEEK.

    Plenty of Republicans are immune to the Obama swoon, of course. The Republican National Committee has emphasized a recent analysis suggesting that Obama had the most liberal voting record in the Senate last year. But even small numbers of Obamacans can help reinforce the candidate's unity message and bolster his "electability" argument. In Iowa, the campaign identified more than 700 registered Republicans who committed to caucusing for Obama (although staffers say they don't yet know how many showed up to vote). And in the Super Tuesday state of Colorado, campaign staffers say they found more than 500 erstwhile Republicans who were willing to switch their party registration.

    Even if Republicans don't convert in more significant numbers, the friendly outreach may blunt the ferocity of GOP attacks. One senior aide to John McCain has already said he's reluctant to attack Obama: last year, McCain's adman Mark McKinnon wrote an internal memo promising not to tape ads against the Illinois Democrat if he were the nominee.
    Who are these people? She likes Obama because of his positions on global warming, his economic policy and old people... If you want more regulation to fight the global warming menace, and increased social welfare programs, you're in the wrong party lady.
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  28. #58
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    You know what's funny? Romney is leading Republicans in Mass with 57%. McCain has 41% of Republicans in his home state.

    The people who know them best, huh?

    If that jerk Huckabee would just crash and burn, Romney would have a much easier time. Huckabee is just doing this to screw Romney - he has no chance of winning the nomination - I bet that Huck has been the other guy on the McCain ticket since the beginning. Nobody would campaign this hard unless they they either saw the constituency waiting to support them or they knew that they would have a room at the White House.

    Which one is Huck?
    I definitely think the the Huckster is angling for a VP slot. This guy has been the consummate spoiler for this primary. I think it would've been vastly different a vastly different landscape had he not been a factor.

    And to respond to your earlier comment, if the GOP ticket is McCain/Huckabee- I can assure you that I will not be voting GOP this election.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  29. #59
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Check this out.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Patrick J. Buchanan
    What McCain Means
    by Patrick J. Buchanan
    Posted: 01/25/2008
    link

    In 2004, the voters of Arizona, by 56 percent to 44 percent, enacted Proposition 200, requiring proof of citizenship before an individual may vote or receive state benefits. Forty-six percent of Hispanics voted for Prop. 200, giving the lie to those who say Hispanics support the illegal invasion of their country.

    Over 190,000 Arizonans petitioned to put Prop. 200 on the ballot. As it simply required proof of citizenship before receiving the benefits and privileges of citizenship, who could oppose it? Answer: the entire GOP congressional delegation, led by Sen. John McCain.

    This is the same John McCain who battled the border fence and colluded with Teddy Kennedy on the amnesty bill rejected by Congress last year after a national uproar.

    Bottom line: If the presidential race is between Hillary and Amnesty John, the border security battle is over and lost. As Laura Ingraham asks, "If Congress passes McCain-Kennedy in 2009, would President McCain sign it?"

    For conservatives, the stakes could not be higher.

    For on the great controversies, McCain has sided as often with the Democrats and the Big Media that pay him court as with conservatives.

    Where President Bush has been bravest, on taxes and judges, McCain has been his nemesis. Not only did McCain vote against the Bush tax cuts twice, he colluded to sell out the most conservative of the Bush nominees to the courts.

    In 1993, McCain voted to confirm ACLU liberal and pro-abortion Ruth Bader Ginsburg. But when Bush set out to restore constitutionalism, McCain colluded with Democrats who wanted to retain power to kill Bush's most conservative nominees.

    McCain helped form the Gang of 14, including seven Democrats, who agreed to block a GOP Senate from using the "nuclear option" -- allowing a simple GOP majority to break a Democrat filibuster of judicial nominees -- unless the seven Democrats approved. McCain thus conspired with liberals to put at risk the most courageous conservatives nominees of President Bush.

    With his record of voting for liberal justices Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer, and of colluding with Democrats in their campaign to kill the most conservative Bush nominees, what guarantee is there a President McCain will nominate and fight for the fifth jurist who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade?

    In the battle over campaign finance reform, McCain colluded again. The McCain-Feingold law denies to gun folks and right-to-lifers their basic First Amendment right to name friends and foes in ads run before elections.

    As for the policies that have transparently failed Bush and the nation, McCain remains an obdurate advocate.

    After America has run five straight record trade deficits that have denuded the nation of thousands of factories and 3 million manufacturing jobs, McCain is still babbling on about Smoot-Hawley.

    "When you study history, every time we've adopted protectionism, we've paid a very heavy price," McCain told a Detroit paper after informing Michiganders their auto jobs are never coming back.

    But what history is John McCain talking about?

    Was the Tariff of 1816, which saved infant U.S. industries from the malicious dumping by British merchants after the War of 1812, a failure? Were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, John Calhoun and Henry Clay fools to support President Madison's tariff?

    From Abraham Lincoln through Calvin Coolidge, the Republican Party -- the Party of Protection -- put 12 presidents in the White House to two for the Democrats, and the United States became the mightiest industrial power in history, producing 42 percent of the world's manufactured goods.

    This is failure -- while Bush free trade is a success? Tell it to Ohio.

    Even Hillary Clinton, whose husband enacted NAFTA with McCain's support, has begun to question the NAFTA paradigm. Not McCain.

    Where Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon came to office determined to extricate the nation with honor from a war whose costs had begun to outweigh any benefit, McCain is talking about spending 50 or 100 years in Iraq.

    Where Bush, by moving NATO onto Russia's doorstep, planting bases in Central Asia and intervening in the affairs of Russia's neighbors, has undone the work of Reagan in making Russia a friend, he sounds like George McGovern alongside the braying McCain, who can't wait to get into Vladimir Putin's face.

    Where Bush finally cleansed his administration of neocons, if not of their legacy, a McCain candidacy is the last, best hope of a neocon restoration and new military adventures in the Middle East.

    If Rudy Giuliani founders in Florida, neocons will be chanting, "Mac is back!"

    The three issues that ruined the Bush presidency are this misbegotten war in Iraq, the failure to secure America's borders from invasion and a mindless trade policy that has destroyed the dollar and left foreigners with $5 trillion to buy up America at fire-sale prices.

    McCain remains an unthinking advocate of all three.

    But where Bush was at his best, on taxes and judges, McCain was collaborating with Hillary. The question conservatives may face if McCain is nominated is not whom should I vote for, but should I vote.

    Mr. Buchanan is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of "The Death of the West," "The Great Betrayal," "A Republic, Not an Empire" and "Where the Right Went Wrong."


    I had no idea McCain voted for Ginsburg and Breyer.
    I also had no idea that in 1999 he said: “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.”

    Maybe I will vote for Obama.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 02-02-2008 at 21:28.
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  30. #60
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    Default Re: Election '08: Super Tuesday

    Both Ginsburg and Breyer were qualified picks for the bench. Barring evidence of incompetence/malfeasance, the GOP usually votes in favor of a presidential nominee.

    The Dems ar more likely to block an appointee purely on political views --which is more brutally practical than the GOP stance.

    It would be nice to hear them say that in so many words, however, and skip the parsiflage.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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