Retrained units the same, FAQ unclear ...

[timoteo]

I've always wondered if upon retraining units with experience and/or upgraded weapons meant that your ranks were diluted or does it "top them off" with like units. The answer to this question in the FAQ seems to contradict itself:

"Q: When I retrain my a depleted unit, are the replacements of the same experience as the unit?

A: Yes. That quirk of RTW is unchanged (one might imagine replacements have zero experience.)"


It says "YES" but then goes on to say "replacements have zero experience". Hurh?

Also, on another note ... it's annoying not knowing which units are currently being retrained. Is there a mod (or is it at least on a patch wishlist) to have it indicated which units are currently in the retraining que?

Thanks.

-Tim

[Guru]

The replacements have the same experience as the unit, like the FAQ says. It doesn't say that replacements have zero experience, it says one might think so (because it would be logical). If you have a badly depleted high experience unit and then retrain it you'll have a full strenght unit with the same experiance.
- Guru

[timoteo]

The replacements have the same experience as the unit, like the FAQ says. It doesn't say that replacements have zero experience, it says one might think so (because it would be logical). If you have a badly depleted high experience unit and then retrain it you'll have a full strenght unit with the same experiance.
- Guru

Thanks for clearing it up for me Guru. I guess there could be two schools of thought on what is "logical" in this instance. To me it would be illogical to not have them retrained at the experience, otherwise retraining (unless the game offered some type of major cost offset) would be useless. So in that way of thinking, the wording "quirk remains" made me think that RTW did not allow for like experience. (It's been a while since I played RTW.)


Thanks again.

[timoteo]

Also, I forgot to add that one might think of this in a practical sense (real-world sense) that the remaining troops might add some insight to the training of the replacement, thus making them near-equals of the originals. I know, a BIT of a stretch, but it works for me. :)

[crpcarrot]

in the real world as far i know from real life accounts it was always the new recruits who alwasy died first.

although joining a highly trained unit would probably increase chance of survival more than a 100% green unit no amount of training would have equaled actual battle exp.

I too prefer the orignal MTW's system where my high exp units were nurtured and used for specific tasks. now i seem to have too many gold chevs specially archers.

there no satisfaction in destroying an enemies unit thats carrying about a 100 flags cos the one guy that got away is just going to comeback with another 59(or whatever it takes to fill up the unit) men who seemed to have gained years of battle exp just by talking to him.

alternatively the gurus suggestion seems good.

if we are talking about being realistic shouldnt exp decrease over time in peacetime to reflect soldieres dying and just plain being out of combat for too long?

[Flavius Merobaudes]

In my last RTW:BI campaign as the Sassanids, I had 4 Clibinarii with one gold chevron each that were really depleted (less than quarter strength). After retraining, they had only 3 bronze chevrons... If recruits were trained at the units average, this should not happen. I remember similar things in MTW2. I guess recruits are normally fairly well trained, but if a unit is less than half strength, its quality decreases when being retrained.
It seems very logical to me: If you mix some recruits in a veteran unit, they will take an example of the veterans and behave the same, act the same in combat... If you have a green unit with only a few veterans in it, they won't have enough influence and they cannot look after all of them.

[Guru]

I guess there could be two schools of thought on what is "logical" in this instance. To me it would be illogical to not have them retrained at the experience, otherwise retraining (unless the game offered some type of major cost offset) would be useless.

I see your point. But think of a battle-hardened veteran unit which takes heavy beating and suffers big losses. The surviving troops are still most experienced. The newly recruited replacements could possibly not have the same experience, they've never fought a battle. The training would not be equal to battle experience. Of course the new troops would benefit from having rough veterans in the unit.
Perhaps it would be nice if the player could choose if he wants to use green troops as cheap replacements or have them trained more excessively, with a much greater cost and time naturally. Green troops would be cheap but they'd lower the overall experience of the unit, well trained men would be expensive but closer to the experience of the veterans. Naturally the veterans would participate in training the replacement troops. My little theory.

- Guru

[predaturd]

doesnt retraining allow you to retrain multiple units in one turn? if it does then you can make more troops retraining than just simply training some more :)

[Guru]

doesnt retraining allow you to retrain multiple units in one turn? if it does then you can make more troops retraining than just simply training some more :)

Units being retrained take one slot each as do units being recruited. So you'd get more troops by recruiting new units rather than retraining old ones.

[FactionHeir]

Also, on another note ... it's annoying not knowing which units are currently being retrained. Is there a mod (or is it at least on a patch wishlist) to have it indicated which units are currently in the retraining que?

Guru has already answered your first question correctly. The answer to your second question is that units currently undergoing retraining have their number of men also listed in the training queue, contrary to the newly trained ones which do not display a number.

[timoteo]

Guru has already answered your first question correctly. The answer to your second question is that units currently undergoing retraining have their number of men also listed in the training queue, contrary to the newly trained ones which do not display a number.

Actually, sorry, I should have been more clear. What I want is to be able to see what units are retraining in the "main screen" (not the pop-up city window with the recruitment, building, etc. tabs). There is no indication on the main screen (lower panel) which are being retrained. I sometimes accidentally move out those that are currently being retrained (upgraded usually).

Which also reminds me, equally annoying is that in the retraining tab the units do not reflect what their current experience, armor, etc. is (it is left blank) and you constantly have to compare the number left to that in the main window to see which units you are working with ... and sometimes you have equal amounts of depleted units for the same type, adding to the confusion.

-Tim