Am I going insane....

[vonhartzell]

Or does experience not effect missle damage in MTW2 as it did in RTW? I know this may have been brought up before but hours of scouring this forum i havent seen it.

I posted this in the bug thread but is it a bug or a feature?

Also why doesnt the alchemist guild upgrade ranged damage? It upgrades melee damage as if im going to send my muskets to hand to hand....or basilisk crews for that matter...

[Rhyfelwyr]

The value of experience has indeed been dulled down. It now longer affects missile damage, and now you only get +1 attack/defense for being on bronze chevrons, 2 for silver, 3 for gold; rather than +1 for each chevron.

However units still get +1 morale for each chevron.

I'm not sure on this, but I think experience may increase missile troops accuracy.

And yes, the Alchemists Guild upgrading thing is a bit strange and pointless.

[vonhartzell]

Ah I see so an army of Robin Hood class archers are just as effective but more CONFIDENT then Joe Smith the peasant with a bow.........niiiiiiiiiiiice....Oh and better gun powder devolpment peeeeshaaaaw who needs that mumbo jumbo!

[FactionHeir]

Basically what CR said.

In M2TW, experience boosts melee attack and defense by 1 point for every color chevron (1 for all bronze, 1 all silver, 1 all gold). Missile damage and accuracy are not affected.

Similarly, weapons upgrades for missile and gunpowder units including artillery only boost their melee attack, not their missile attack as it should.

[vonhartzell]

:*( So my wonderful dream of creating mass experienced muslim archers to rival pesky crossbow piles will never be a reality...can this be modded?

[FactionHeir]

Nope, not to my knowledge.

Weapon upgrades in M2TW always give +6 to melee attack regardless of weapon bonus type.

Similarly, accuracy is a set value for every particle type.

[glyphz]

:*( So my wonderful dream of creating mass experienced muslim archers to rival pesky crossbow piles will never be a reality...can this be modded?

Yes... I'm going through a similar feeling. Hoping this will be fixed in a patch, if not then there's no hope for experienced 1st/2nd tier missiles doing at least decent damage to the opponent's more expensive troops from afar. Gains in melee won't save peasant xbows/archers from light infantry/militia charges (no less cavalry) except fight a hopeless battle longer

[ReiseReise]

As always I will argue as the devil's advocate.
Archers are trained in massed fire (to borrow a gunpowder term ), ie making all their arrows land in the same 20m circle, and not in target shooting, eg "the left eye of the 3rd man from the left in the 1st row of the enemy" An individual archer is very unlikely to visually track his arrow all the way to the very distant target amid hundreds of other arrows, and is therefore unlikely to gain any insight as to whether his particular shot was effective or not. Therefore he cannot gain any experience for the kills his arrows happen to make, because he does not know if it was his arrow or one of his comrade's. As such, a more realistic bonus would be a decreased reload time for archers as they gain experience. Shooting more quickly is the only experience they gain since they cannot actually see the results of each of their shots. Giving them credit for shots within 25m or some other number where they can actually see the result would be too complicated so lets ignore it - archers are meant to engage at maximum range and not let the enemy close to a distance where they can 'see the whites of their eyes'.

The thing that annoys me about archers is their direct insubordination of the general's direct orders to attack a particular target. I could understand if they are already shooting at a target and it takes them a volley or two to change targets, but this is not the case. CIP: Your archers are currently not shooting and have 'Fire at will' OFF. As the enemy draws near, you order them to attack unit X, which in a short time will pose a dire threat to your infantry line. Instead they spontaneously choose to shoot 5 volleys at unit Y, which happens to be a unit of eastern peasants who could not spear a turnip if their lives depended on it (1 att, 1 def, poor morale, but watch out they will kill a man by kicking him in the balls, damn). Maybe the archers are just guarding their 'equipment', but if it were my choice I would personally castrate every one of my archers who disobeys my orders.

Unfortunately the game does not offer this course of action.

[PBI]

I have also found this problem of archers all targeting the nearest enemy regardless of what you actually told them to attack. I find it tends to happen when I select all the archers as a group and give the attack order with a single click. If you give them their orders one unit at-a-time it seems to work better.

On a related note, it annoys me that artillery only get experience by getting kills. It seems to me that if they have fired off all their ammunition in a battle and flattened the enemy walls they would get better at aiming their guns than if they fired one shot into a mass of peasants at point-blank range. It would be better if they gained experience based on how many rounds they fire, regardless of whether they hit anything.

[Ramses II CP]

Mmm, yes, if you batch select archers and click them to fire on the enemy they'll all select their own target companies. If you individually click them each on one enemy company they'll usually target that one company. I have also found it helpful, as long as you're certain they are in range, to shift click the particular enemy company you want to target.

[ataribaby]

In M2TW, experience boosts melee attack and defense by 1 point for every color chevron...

Is the defense boost hidden, i.e. not displayed on the unit description? In all my M2TW games only melee is boosted by experience as you describe - 1 point for each chevron colour.

I realise the stats are a rough guide as armour tests on this forum have shown (e.g. padded/leather armour is a must, giving a much higher boost in practice than +1). Swordsmens' Guild weapon upgrades only show on the stats as an additional point. I assume the +6 is a hidden stat too?

[FactionHeir]

Experienced do show the +1 to melee attack and defense. Note the +1 is to defense, not to armor or shield, and it may be easy to overlook that.

Swordsmith guild boosts attack by +6, but displays +1 only, so the real value is +5 of what you see.

[Eikon the Magistrate]

I cant say if experience ---> missle. But experienced gunpowder troops seem to be more accurate (besides the moral boost) I think it may also affect shooting/reload speed.

/Agree about the alchemists lab.

[ataribaby]

Experienced do show the +1 to melee attack and defense. Note the +1 is to defense, not to armor or shield, and it may be easy to overlook that.

Swordsmith guild boosts attack by +6, but displays +1 only, so the real value is +5 of what you see.

OK, thanks for the swordsmith upgrade info FactionHeir.

As for the experience-attack/defence thing though I am absolutely certain that Defence Skill isn't increased by experience (at least not on the unit descriptions).

I'm looking at two units of Armoured Swordsmen; one with one chevron, the other with none:

Armoured Swordsmen (1 Exp.)

Attack 12
Charge Bonus 3

Total Defence 18
Armour 6
Defence Skill 4
Shield 8

The inexperienced unit is the same, except with an Attack of 11.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

@ataribaby

In Vanilla one bronze chevron would mean one extra experience. You are playing Kingdoms. In Kingdoms you won't get extra experience.

[ataribaby]

Cripes, you're right Monsieur. Sorry chaps. I've been playing the Retrofit and Kingdoms (bloody good they are too) and haven't bothered with vanilla since the middle of last year.

It seems the benefits of experience have diminished a long way from the heady days of Rome TW (9 exp. ubermensche peasants that could match elite heavy units were fun, but ludicrous).

[Shahed]

Basically what CR said.

In M2TW, experience boosts melee attack and defense by 1 point for every color chevron (1 for all bronze, 1 all silver, 1 all gold). Missile damage and accuracy are not affected.

Hi FH, are you 100% sure it doesn't affect missile accuracy ? We've probably been over this last year, but I've forgotten so if you could please post me the relevant code or just remind me how the conclusion was reached, would be much obliged.

[Old Geezer]

What do you mean "in Kingdoms you won't get extra experience", Monsieur Alphonse? My units get chevrons and I thought they were getting benefits from it.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

What do you mean "in Kingdoms you won't get extra experience", Monsieur Alphonse? My units get chevrons and I thought they were getting benefits from it.

My mistake. I meant skill.