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Thread: Chavez- at it again

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Chavez- at it again

    Chavez threatens to halt oil sales to US
    I say go ahead and try it.
    We'll last a lot longer without Venezuelan oil than he will without money.
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    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Chavez threatens to halt oil sales to US
    I say go ahead and try it.
    We'll last a lot longer without Venezuelan oil than he will without money.
    O rly?

    I say it's just a question of who caves first - Chavez after his people overthrow him due to the huge economic potential for failure, or America who result in invading Venezuela.

    Ultimately, if Chavez sticks to this and never gives in, there's a good chance he'll lose.

    EDIT: Then again, thinking about it, there are plenty of other hungry countries (China, India...) that would gladly have what would have been American oil.
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    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Seems like a waste of time. Oil prices are set based on a relationship between worldwide supply and demand. If one country bans exports to a particular country, it won't result in a cost increase for the latter, it will just mean that they buy their oil elsewhere.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zim
    Seems like a waste of time. Oil prices are set based on a relationship between worldwide supply and demand. If one country bans exports to a particular country, it won't result in a cost increase for the latter, it will just mean that they buy their oil elsewhere.
    No, the oil price is determined by whatever OPEC says it should be.

    As for the topic itself, I say GO CHAVEZ! Finally showing some promise again after some ridiculous moves.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    OPEC manipulates prices by increasing or decreasing their output of oil. If Chavez wanted to affect prices he could try to do the same, although it wouldn't have much effect if only Venezuela went through with it.

    It's an empty gesture, most likely made as a way for him to gain political capital without actually taking an action that would incur any real consequences.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    No, the oil price is determined by whatever OPEC says it should be.

    As for the topic itself, I say GO CHAVEZ! Finally showing some promise again after some ridiculous moves.
    Last edited by Zim; 02-11-2008 at 07:09.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zim
    OPEC manipulates prices by increasing or decreasing their output of oil. If Chavez wanted to affect prices he could try to do the same, although it wouldn't have much effect if only Venezuela went through with it.
    Chavez is a member of OPEC. And he holds more sway over them than non-members do(like the US). And if he decides to shut down, it's rather doubtful that the other OPEC-members will increase their capacity to keep oil prices down, thus increasing oil prices. Chavez actually has a lot of power when it comes to oil. Besides, what serves the US best; keeping a low oil price, or help one corporation avoid paying for their past corruption?
    Last edited by HoreTore; 02-11-2008 at 07:19.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    If Exxon wins that case, I say shut it down Chavez. They don't deserve to own your nations wealth.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Saudi Arabia tends to increase production when the U.S. pressures them to, actually.

    At this point Chvez doesn't even seem to be threatening to shut down, but just a rather ineffective sanction. He couldn't even lower production without the rest of OPEC, since they all have to do it together or prices wouldn't change much and he'd lose too much of the money he needs for his social and other programs. I don't think they'd follow his lead at this point. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they cut off production to raise prices again, but it won't be on Chaves's timetable.

    If the British and American (and, if Exxon have their way, international) courts decide Venezuela is in the wrong in this case, I don't think political pressure should affect the case, however much it irks President Chavez.

    As a side note I also rather question his method of calling every single country that even appears to stand a chance to agree with the U.S. at a single point of time on a single issue a puppet (well, lapdog in the case of Mexico a while back). As if that will inflame British opinion in his favor somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Chavez is a member of OPEC. And he holds more sway over them than non-members do(like the US). And if he decides to shut down, it's rather doubtful that the other OPEC-members will increase their capacity to keep oil prices down, thus increasing oil prices. Chavez actually has a lot of power when it comes to oil. Besides, what serves the US best; keeping a low oil price, or help one corporation avoid paying for their past corruption?
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zim
    If the British and American (and, if Exxon have their way, international) courts decide Venezuela is in the wrong in this case, I don't think political pressure should affect the case, however much it irks President Chavez.
    Actually nothing could be more valuable to his Presidency than if America denounced him.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
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    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Valuable to Chaves' presidency? I imagine you're right, but I would hope both the U.S. and British governments would let their courts decide the legal issue without pressuring them either way or making too many public statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    Actually nothing could be more valuable to his Presidency than if America denounced him.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Xia - it won't hurt Chavez and Venezuela at all. Not only have their revenues increased insanely over the last few years, but good ol' China will bend down on one knee to get all the oil which was previously going to the US. It will only effect the US, so you better hope he doesn't.
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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Chavez threatens to halt oil sales to US
    I say go ahead and try it.
    We'll last a lot longer without Venezuelan oil than he will without money.
    You got that right. Virtually all of the Venezuelan oil is being refined in Texas. Since most of the world refineries work with sweet light crude, Chavez will have a very tough time selling his heavy sour crude to ANYONE other than us. It's a simple matter of economics, as most countries would instead prefer to pay more for sweet light than retool their refineries to accomodate Chavez. He can run around with his mouth wide open, shout imprecations and threaten Uncle Sam, but guess what, if we stop refining his oil, his gravy train is over.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    If Exxon wins that case, I say shut it down Chavez. They don't deserve to own your nations wealth.
    Then don't allow them to invest billions in your country and then decide "hmm, I think we'll take all the infrastructure you set up and not let you have any of the oil proceeds that you invested billions in"

    Besides, this is Exxon Mobile, a private company, you know... a company not run by the government?

    DC would have a hard time interfering in this matter.

    Good for Exxon Mobile for sticking it to Chavez.

    I'll reinvest my money back in the company just out of principle now.



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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Xia - it won't hurt Chavez and Venezuela at all. Not only have their revenues increased insanely over the last few years, but good ol' China will bend down on one knee to get all the oil which was previously going to the US. It will only effect the US, so you better hope he doesn't.
    Rising oil prices usually do that, JAG. Falling oil prices don't do that. I don't know if you last checked, but the world appears to be heading for a global recession. Not really good news for Chavez.

    I'll also post research later, but I believe Venezuela produces a tough kind of crude which very few countries can refine. You know, there is a reason why Chavez keeps selling to America and it really isn't out of the goodness of his heart.



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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice
    You know, there is a reason why Chavez keeps selling to America and it really isn't out of the goodness of his heart.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Xia - it won't hurt Chavez and Venezuela at all. Not only have their revenues increased insanely over the last few years, but good ol' China will bend down on one knee to get all the oil which was previously going to the US. It will only effect the US, so you better hope he doesn't.
    China could get that crude right now, if they were willing to pay more money for it. But they don't, because they get all the oil they want at the current price already.

    And if Chavez sells to China, we'll just buy from whoever used to sell to China. A sanction like Chavez proposes is useless in the crude oil market.

    And I fully support US and British courts seizing assets of the Venezuela State Oil for Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhilips.

    CR
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    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Go Chavez!

    I really do enjoy watching this nutbar do his thing. He may be a tyrannical wacko with delusions of godhood, but at least he ain`t boring. And anyone, anywhere, anytime, who is willing to go toe to toe with an oil giant and fight it out in the mud is ok by me. Nice to see the South Americans hit back once in a while.

    I`m sure the Indian and Chinese ambassadors are lunching with Hugo as we speak.
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg
    You got that right. Virtually all of the Venezuelan oil is being refined in Texas. Since most of the world refineries work with sweet light crude, Chavez will have a very tough time selling his heavy sour crude to ANYONE other than us. It's a simple matter of economics, as most countries would instead prefer to pay more for sweet light than retool their refineries to accomodate Chavez. He can run around with his mouth wide open, shout imprecations and threaten Uncle Sam, but guess what, if we stop refining his oil, his gravy train is over.
    What he said. Who else is going to buy it?
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    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    I think my dad's car is broken thanks to Chavez oil.




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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    What he said. Who else is going to buy it?
    Who is going to transport it in the first place, the panama channel isn't ready for the biggies would hardly be worthwile for China or India or whatever, they can get it elsewhere with these cool things called pipes.

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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Virtually all of the Venezuelan oil is being refined in Texas. Since most of the world refineries work with sweet light crude, Chavez will have a very tough time selling his heavy sour crude to ANYONE other than us. It's a simple matter of economics, as most countries would instead prefer to pay more for sweet light than retool their refineries to accomodate Chavez. He can run around with his mouth wide open, shout imprecations and threaten Uncle Sam, but guess what, if we stop refining his oil, his gravy train is over.
    But doesn't the deal with China mean that not only are China building refineries for Venezuelan oil in China , they are also building them in Venezuela . Doesn't part of the deal with Brazil mean that Brazil is building refineries for Venezuelan oil , same with India and every other country he has been doing oil deals with over the past few years .
    He may be an idiot , but he isn't completely stupid , he plans ahead .

    Who is going to transport it in the first place, the panama channel isn't ready for the biggies would hardly be worthwile for China or India or whatever, they can get it elsewhere with these cool things called pipes.
    Ah of course , that would be the deal with China building new Pacific ports and oil terminals in South America with pipelines from Venezuela .

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Ah of course , that would be the deal with China building new Pacific ports and oil terminals in South America with pipelines from Venezuela .
    There is no deal, just a little hugging we all get lonily sometimes.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice
    Then don't allow them to invest billions in your country and then decide "hmm, I think we'll take all the infrastructure you set up and not let you have any of the oil proceeds that you invested billions in"

    Besides, this is Exxon Mobile, a private company, you know... a company not run by the government?
    Exxon Mobile is a thoroughly corrupt company, in that they have no reservations for paying off corrupt state officials to get their way.

    It's about time they got smacked. It's well deserved.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    If you are absolutily sure of that Darwin says you are unfit for life. It's not perfect we aren't all from Norway.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    If you are absolutily sure of that Darwin says you are unfit for life. It's not perfect we aren't all from Norway.
    Norwegian companies(Statoil), are unfortunately no better, and I'm glad they're getting the smack from Chavez too.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  26. #26
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Norwegian companies(Statoil), are unfortunately no better, and I'm glad they're getting the smack from Chavez too.
    Why? Norway is a great country. At least it hasn't been kinda evil since conquering Brittain.

  27. #27
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Rising oil prices usually do that, JAG. Falling oil prices don't do that. I don't know if you last checked, but the world appears to be heading for a global recession. Not really good news for Chavez.
    A global recession which... China is going to be completely immune from - don't believe me, it's the IMF that said it. China's GDP growth is going to be completely unaffected, predicted at 10% growth this year.

    It might be brilliant for you to think he won't do it, but he will and he will do it so his country is still strong and continuing down the path of social equality.

    Plus, actually some of the selling he has done in the US, has been out of the goodness of his heart - trying to help the poor in the US, doing what the US govt wouldn't even dream of doing.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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  28. #28
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    But doesn't the deal with China mean that not only are China building refineries for Venezuelan oil in China , they are also building them in Venezuela . Doesn't part of the deal with Brazil mean that Brazil is building refineries for Venezuelan oil , same with India and every other country he has been doing oil deals with over the past few years .
    He may be an idiot , but he isn't completely stupid , he plans ahead .


    Ah of course , that would be the deal with China building new Pacific ports and oil terminals in South America with pipelines from Venezuela .
    Any idea when these projects are going to be completed? Until they are, and are capable of processing the quantities the US purchases, he's just heating air with these threats.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    Any idea when these projects are going to be completed? Until they are, and are capable of processing the quantities the US purchases, he's just heating air with these threats.
    His cause is just though. The same can't be said about Exxon Mobile.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  30. #30
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Re: Chavez- at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    His cause is just though. The same can't be said about Exxon Mobile.
    Couldn't agree more. It's about time companies like Exxon pay for their sins.

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