rarest unit?

[Ravencroft]

I'm just curious what the rarest unit in vanilla MTW is. Also, I'm curious what the rarest unit in VI(both viking and medieval map) is.

[caravel]

Probably the Almughavars, Saxon Huscarles, Berserkers or Sherwood Foresters. These only appear in revolts in certain provinces.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Are the beserkers as fierce in Med as in RTW?

[I of the Storm]

They're pretty badass iirc. I remember one battle in a viking campaign where I had a unit of them in a forest literally slaughtering half a saxon army of decent size before being overwhelmed. I get horrible pictures if I imagine this one happening in reality. Howling madmen charging at scared fyrdsmen in a dark forest screaming bloody murder ...

[Jxrc]

Gothic Knights if you start in the Early period ... You'll probably finish the game before they become available since you'll need to play as the German or Italians (Never seen the IA produce them). Kept a few games going despite everything indicating that I could not loose but the only challenge was to find them a worthy opponent ... Not much fun using them just to slaughter vanilla spearmen ...

About the same for all high-level units (Janissaries, Gendarme, etc) once you start in the Early period...

[Brandy Blue]

Actually berserkers aren't all that rare, so long as you are playing Viking era. The Picts generally seem to get some. Jom Vikings, however, I have never seen unless I play the Vikings and make them myself. I don't think there really is a rarest unit. As Jxrc points out, it all depends on the era you pick and the faction you play. You could make Lancers as common as mushrooms if you wanted to play that way. Leave it to the AI, and you'll probably not see any.

[Martok]

Are the beserkers as fierce in Med as in RTW?

They're probably even more so, actually. Viking Berzerkers are scary.

[Tratorix]

Almughavars. I'm still convinced they're an urban legend.

[Heidrek]

Almughavars.

I've wanted to use these for ages but never seem to be able to recruit them!

I'm going to try using the Volga-Bulgars just so I can use Bashkorts to see what they are like. I've used the Agro-Javelin Irish Bonachts which are pretty cool, but I really like the idea of my Spear wall having some serious offense as well. Launching a volley of Javelins at incoming opponents has got to be fun, when the Javeliniers can stand and fight as well.

Sadly I've never come across Almughavars so I cant say how useful they really are.

[Innocentius]

I'd say JHI actually. The AI never has enough time to reach them (the Turks, especially in vanilla, tend to get crushed from my experience) and if you're playing you'll have won the game or gotten tired of it before they're available to you.

[ArtistofWarfare]

I'd say JHI actually. The AI never has enough time to reach them (the Turks, especially in vanilla, tend to get crushed from my experience) and if you're playing you'll have won the game or gotten tired of it before they're available to you.

In my campaign now I'm at 1137 ad and the Turks are in big trouble. Down to 1 or 2 provinces and it seems they're getting just crushed by the Byzantines.

[Aldgilles]

I'd also say Almugavars, in a normal game (I modded my game so I can make 'em) you never see them. But also the JHI are so hard to reach you hardly ever see them.

First time I saw Bashkorts: I (Byzantines) met them on the battlefield, I had a unit of Katatanks keeping an eye on them, not realizing they were a spearthrowing unit. Next time I looked my unit of Katatanks were all but wiped out...

[caravel]

You won't often see JHI fielded by the AI because the building prerequisites are so high. Also it usually happens that the AI does not hold onto a province for a long enough to build a grand mosque and military academy. There is bound to be some kind of revolt or invasion where the province is lost even temporarily which results in the loss of the grand mosque (usually before the military academy can be built).

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Almughavars or Gothic Knights, have never seen the knights produced by the AI.

However, shock of all shocks, I've seen Almughavars twice!!!

The first time was as part of a rebel force in Navarre, and the other time I managed to hire them as mercs, I did just because its so rare.

This is on unmodded vanilla, no VI, and starting to believe it was all a dream!

[bamff]

As far as units produced by the AI are concerned, I would agree - JHI's, Gothic Knights, Almughavars are all units that I have never had to face, nor have i seen them used in action by the AI.

I would also add Swabian Swordsmen - but I daresay that this is simply because the HRI are generally collapsed before I get into contact with them.

Oh and for Heidrek's benefit, I will second Aldgilles' opinion - Bashkorts can be scary little buggers!

[Heidrek]

Javelins for the win!!!

I can see it now....an army full of Bashkorts and archers with a couple of heavy infantry and some cavalry. Line up the Bashers two units deep one behind the other as the infantry base, with heavy infantry and cavalry behind them.

Anything coming into melee range will have to walk through a javelin storm that will continue even after they close with the first Basher unit while the cav and heeavy infantry move out onto the flanks and charge in from sides and rear.

The only problem with Javelin units overall is that they are so weak in melee that they are seldom useful after the first volley as they have to run away from their opponents or be slaughters. Not so the Bashkort who can receive a charge from even heavy cavalry and hold their ground.

I've come to love Bonachts for this reason as well. They are the reverse of Bashkorts, no defense but killer attack and 100 men strong. One unit throws a total of 400 Javelins, which can produce pretty sickening results against a pinned foe. Once they've run out, it's time to put them into Wedge and send them in to break any survivors. they are basically 100 man Highland Clansmen units that throw javelins too but aren't as fast.

[Roark]

Nah mate.. Bonnachts only get one heavy javelin.

They're still pretty cool, though. An interesting hybrid unit.

[Heidrek]

Damn, it seems like more when I use them as they seem to volley a few times?

[Aldgilles]

From what I can tell with the Gnome Editor both Bashkorts and Bonnachts have 4 projectiles (or is this chanched with the Tyberius mod?)

Edit: in the original 'Vikings_prod_unit file' Bonnachts have only 1 projectile.

[macsen rufus]

I don't think I've ever seen Almughavars in MTW/VI... I have looked for them, but Had some sightings in XL, though.

And Bashkorts, FTW! I love that unit, they really are the secret weapon of the Volga-Bulgarians, so long as you remember they are spearmen and not skirmishers (which means of course the AI playing VBs totally wastes their potential). They are mean, and in my VB campaign, many a time I saw units of feudal or chivalric knights just evaporate before they reached my line only to rout instantly once the handful of survivors discovered the Bashkorts still had one pointy stick left to poke with

[Jxrc]

I don't think I've ever seen Almughavars in MTW/VI... I have looked for them, but Had some sightings in XL, though.

Got one units last week-end during an Aragonese Campaign. Built an inn in Aragon at the very start and got one unit for hire almost immediately. A nice unit which caused quite a shock to the first AUM that walked towards them thinking they were the usual feudal seargent waiting to be turned into mincemeat Only problem is that they are only available as mercenaries so that you cannot get enough of them to have an actual impact on the campaign. Likewise, the fact that you cannot replace the casulaties causes me to use them with way much too cautiously ... What I can say is that coupled with three units of dismounted Druzina, they make the battles agaisnt the AUM much easier (not really needed at all if you play as Spain, a very nice bonus if you play as Aragon).

The inn was built in something like 1091 I had only been able to hire one unit of Almughavars in 1140 (but I did not checked each year and due to the improvement of my castle, the amount of mercernaries available decreased over time).

[Ironside]

Are the beserkers as fierce in Med as in RTW?

They usually end up with around 150 kills for 6 dead (out of 12) for me, unless facing harder opponents (log file check on the last viking campaign played).
Had one old battle were they walked over a bridge as defense. That was while killing opponents... I'm not sure how many, but it should be 200-300/unit.

Still my record with huscarles are 1004 (as a lone unit facing rabble) and 612 (killed 1/5 of the invading army by themself) (I tried to find that bridge battle in the log files, but it seems to be too old ), so the really tough units can do better. The small size make them easy to valour up though.

As for the actual topic, I think all fortress level units are extremely rare for the AI to build, as they don't really tech to that level often.

Some of the rebel only and Almughavars are truly the rarest though, never seen Almughavars unmodded for example.

Seen the AI with Joms in VI though. He had a small empire in southern England that gave enough to tech to Joms in Norway.

[MJF]

The inn was built in something like 1091 I had only been able to hire one unit of Almughavars in 1140 (but I did not checked each year and due to the improvement of my castle, the amount of mercernaries available decreased over time).

just to change topic briefly, i always wanted to know why the mercernay pool dries up. so it diminishes as the province gets more developed?

[bamff]

just to change topic briefly, i always wanted to know why the mercernay pool dries up. so it diminishes as the province gets more developed?

I suppose it makes sense, that as the province builds up there will be less opportunity for mercenaries to ply their trade without getting themselves arrested by the local authorities....hence, the more developed, the fewer mercs around...

[drone]

just to change topic briefly, i always wanted to know why the mercernay pool dries up. so it diminishes as the province gets more developed?

If I'm not mistaken, the pool dries up the farther away from the front the province gets. The closer conflict is to the province, the better for mercenary recruitment. I believe this is how it works, I generally don't pay attention to mercs though.

Edit-> of course, I may be getting this confused with RTW merc availability, I still haven't completely purged that game from my brain yet.

[Martok]

If I'm not mistaken, the pool dries up the farther away from the front the province gets. The closer conflict is to the province, the better for mercenary recruitment. I believe this is how it works, I generally don't pay attention to mercs though.

Correct. Mercenaries are more likely to show up in provinces near a faction's borders, especially if said borders are contested.

[macsen rufus]

Also some buildings have negative "mercenary magnetism" - there's a column for this in the build_prod file, so you can check it out with Gnome

[Ravencroft]

yeah, I guess. The base rate inns give is 40. As the castle gets upgraded another level, that value decreases.