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Thread: Obama the White Man

  1. #31
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Race is a pretty flimsy construct no matter how you look at it, Strike. If some people are voting for Obama because they think he's black, I'm sure they will be counter-balanced by people who vote against him 'cause they think he's black.
    And both groups should be criticized for doing so. Either way, it stinks of racism.
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  2. #32
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Bush:conservative
    Obama:liberal

    sfts says: same thing!

    If you think he will come in and do anything diffrent for this country you are wrong. He will pull our boys out of a widly unpopular conflict. Which with the pickle were in may or may not be the best thing. All he will do is spend spend spend without looking at any real tangible soultions. He will simply promise healthcare and peace when in reality those things may be worse for us. There all the same and to say Obama is about hope is asinine thats what this is about it is about a man claiming to be diffrent when in reality he is more of the same. Thats why he panders to the black vote and claims moral high ground when he isnt any diffrent at all. I guess some people will always be swayed by white teeth and sensationalist remarks.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

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  3. #33
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Sad, that being of a particular race somehow implies being less or more of part of a nation.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  4. #34

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    \


    He's black in the sense that racists don't care if one of your parents was white.
    Wait. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Racists define ethnicity now?

  5. #35
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Who else would? What worth does it have, to claim the someone is 50% black, 25% hispanic and 25% white? What can that possibly mean?
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  6. #36
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey S View Post
    Who else would? What worth does it have, to claim the someone is 50% black, 25% hispanic and 25% white? What can that possibly mean?
    Exactly. Races are only different if you let people define what a race is. If you remove skin colour what is the difference?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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  7. #37

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Exactly. Races are only different if you let people define what a race is. If you remove skin colour what is the difference?
    Excluding differences in IQ, not much.

  8. #38
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Excluding differences in IQ, not much.
    I'm struggling to find how that isn't racist.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Wait. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Racists define ethnicity now?
    Yes they do , have a look at some of those nice errrr....reliable links Mars provided in the other topic , there are only five races and anyone that has any mixture of them just doesn't belong

  10. #40

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I'm struggling to find how that isn't racist.
    Facts are suddenly racist?

    Im sorry. We're all exactly the same. Stupid science...

  11. #41
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Facts are suddenly racist?

    Im sorry. We're all exactly the same. Stupid science...
    Would you mind presenting some facts, then? Some verefiable evidence to support your claim?
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by makaikhaan View Post
    Would you mind presenting some facts, then? Some verefiable evidence to support your claim?
    Is this not common knowledge? The reason for the differences has been debated for years...A simple wiki will get you started.


    Cumulative IQ gaps by race or ethnicity based on 1981 U.S. distributions. According to these findings, WAIS IQs for Whites (mean = 101.4, SD = 14.7) were higher than those for Blacks (mean = 86.9, SD = 13.0); distributions for Hispanics (mean = 91), East Asians (mean = 106), and Ashkenazi Jews (mean = 112-115) are less precise because of overlap and small sample size. The modern debate focuses on what causes these disparities in average IQ. Based on Reynolds et al. 1987, p. 330.


    Socioeconomic status (SES) varies both between and within populations, but Black-White differences in IQ persist among the children of parents matched for SES, and the gap is largest among the children of wealthiest and best educated parents.[97]
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 06-12-2008 at 01:09.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Is this not common knowledge? The reason for the differences has been debated for years..
    And is still being debated and has not been settled so it isn't a fact is it , its a disputed theory

  14. #44

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    And is still being debated and has not been settled so it isn't a fact is it , its a disputed theory
    No sir. I am afraid you're wrong. The differences in IQ measurements are well documented scientific facts, the reasons for those differences are theoretical.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 06-12-2008 at 01:28.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    No sir. I am afraid you're wrong. The differences in IQ measurements are well documented scientific facts, the reasons for those differences are theoretical.
    No, you're wrong. It hasn't been shown that IQ is different, measured IQ is different. The measurement system has been said to be faulty.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    No, you're wrong. It hasn't been shown that IQ is different, measured IQ is different. The measurement system has been said to be faulty.
    Sorry, but that is not the general concensus.

    While the existence of average IQ test score differences has been a matter of accepted fact for decades, a great deal of controversy exists among scholars over the question of whether these score differences reflected real differences in cognitive ability. Some claim that there is no evidence for test bias since IQ tests are equally good predictors of IQ-related factors (such as school performance) for U.S. Blacks and Whites.[165] The performance differences persist in tests and testing situations in which care has been taken to eliminate bias.[165] It has also been suggested that IQ tests are formulated in such a way as to disadvantage minorities.[165] Controlled studies have shown that test construction does not substantially contribute to the IQ gap.[165] However, some psychometricians are not satisfied that the question of test bias is fully answered by these results.[166][167][168] Also, all commenters reject the common misconception that IQ is meant to measure "innate" differences in intelligence, and they agree that average IQ scores on their own say nothing about the cause of the differences.

    The preponderance of evidence indicates that IQ tests measuring general intelligence are crossculturally valid. There is little or no evidence of population-specific cultural effects apart from the obvious example of language bias.[169] For example, Robert Sternberg et al. found that the IQ of 12- to 15-year-old Kenyans predicted school grades at about the same level as they do in the West.[170] IQ also predicted university performance equally well in African and non-African engineering students in South Africa in a 2004 study.[171] Salgado et al. (2003) demonstrated the international generalizability of general mental ability across 10 member countries of the European Community and differences in a nation’s culture, religion, language, socioeconomic level or employment legislation did not affect the predictive validity of IQ tests.[172]
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 06-12-2008 at 01:49.

  17. #47
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    It doesn't take into account economic difficulties felt by blacks and Hispanics, which means that a lower level of education is achievable. Hence their IQ suffers.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
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  18. #48

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    It doesn't take into account economic difficulties felt by blacks and Hispanics, which means that a lower level of education is achievable. Hence their IQ suffers.
    Well... yes and no, mostly no.

    Socioeconomic status (SES) varies both between and within populations, but Black-White differences in IQ persist among the children of parents matched for SES, and the gap is largest among the children of wealthiest and best educated parents.[97]
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 06-12-2008 at 01:50.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    If you think he will come in and do anything diffrent for this country you are wrong. He will pull our boys out of a widly unpopular conflict. Which with the pickle were in may or may not be the best thing. All he will do is spend spend spend without looking at any real tangible soultions. He will simply promise healthcare and peace when in reality those things may be worse for us. There all the same and to say Obama is about hope is asinine thats what this is about it is about a man claiming to be diffrent when in reality he is more of the same. Thats why he panders to the black vote and claims moral high ground when he isnt any diffrent at all. I guess some people will always be swayed by white teeth and sensationalist remarks.
    So pull out of a war that is costing us billions of dollars will not help?

    No tangible solutions? An energy policy that would start weening us off foreign oil is not tangible?

    Health care and peace are bad things?

    So the fact that all most all of his campaign money comes from small donations instead of large corporations or the rich is not different?

    All this plus the fact that saying all politician are the same ignores the fact that under 8 year with a democratic president we had a huge economic boom and increased the quality of life in this county. Then under 7 1/2 years under a republic president, gas is over now $4 a gallon, we are approaching or are in a recession, and the dollar is so weak it not funny.

    Yup, all politician are the same.
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  20. #50
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by m52nickerson View Post
    So pull out of a war that is costing us billions of dollars will not help?

    No tangible solutions? An energy policy that would start weening us off foreign oil is not tangible?

    Health care and peace are bad things?

    So the fact that all most all of his campaign money comes from small donations instead of large corporations or the rich is not different?

    All this plus the fact that saying all politician are the same ignores the fact that under 8 year with a democratic president we had a huge economic boom and increased the quality of life in this county. Then under 7 1/2 years under a republic president, gas is over now $4 a gallon, we are approaching or are in a recession, and the dollar is so weak it not funny.

    Yup, all politician are the same.
    /this is exactly what Im talking about. Obama has taken millions from lobbyists and PACs look it up yourself. Do you understand why gas is going up? its simple supply and demand China and Indias need for oil has grown exponentially over the past couple of years. The more people that want your product the higher the price tag. Your soultion to health care is to throw money at it? how do you know that system would be better its not. Completly pulling out of Iraq now may disastouras consequences. Obama sees the fedral goverment as the soultion to everything so did FDR and his effects on the econmy are still being felt for the worse today.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    /this is exactly what Im talking about. Obama has taken millions from lobbyists and PACs look it up yourself.
    ORELY - http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/su...p?id=N00009638

    Do you understand why gas is going up? its simple supply and demand China and Indias need for oil has grown exponentially over the past couple of years. The more people that want your product the higher the price tag.
    That is part of it, but you don't think that an unjust war in Iraq has some affect? What about the weak US dollar? What about the fact that the current administration has not done anything to reduce our need for foreign oil? Anyone who looked at world economics knew that the demand for oil was going to rise sharply.

    Your soultion to health care is to throw money at it? how do you know that system would be better its not.
    Obama's plan is more than simply throwing money at it. From the horses mouth - http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

    Completly pulling out of Iraq now may disastouras consequences.
    You mean like saving US lives, and money, and forcing the Iraq government to do something.

    Obama sees the fedral goverment as the soultion to everything so did FDR and his effects on the econmy are still being felt for the worse today.
    You mean Franklin Delano Roosevelt who pulled us out of the Great Depression, was so popular he was voted in for three terms, and got us through the biggest war in history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

    Perhaps instead of shooting from the hip, you should do some research first.
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  22. #52
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by m52nickerson View Post
    ORELY - http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/su...p?id=N00009638



    That is part of it, but you don't think that an unjust war in Iraq has some affect? What about the weak US dollar? What about the fact that the current administration has not done anything to reduce our need for foreign oil? Anyone who looked at world economics knew that the demand for oil was going to rise sharply.



    Obama's plan is more than simply throwing money at it. From the horses mouth - http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/



    You mean like saving US lives, and money, and forcing the Iraq government to do something.



    You mean Franklin Delano Roosevelt who pulled us out of the Great Depression, was so popular he was voted in for three terms, and got us through the biggest war in history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

    Perhaps instead of shooting from the hip, you should do some research first.
    I will cede the his campagin contributions however do you realize how hard it is to get viable energy and mass produce like we have done with crude oil? The sheer cost of begining such a project makes me shudder. We need to get off it we just cant start throwing cash at it. A national health care system will do more harm than good and cost the average joe more money. Leaving Iraq will kill many more people the fact of the matter is the Iraqi goverment is in no position to "do something" right now and we need to face that. FDR started defict spending and created and artifical market with his new deal his economic policies are the reason our economy has a crippiling defict. To often people look at the short term and neglect the long term. Health care the economy energy they are all pressing issues however we need long term not short term soultions.


    Perhaps instead of shooting from the hip, you should do some research first
    I don't think that far ahead.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Sorry, but that is not the general concensus.
    Hey panzer,that source you are using for your cut and pastes , it wouldn't happen to have little big warning headings concerning accuracy neutrality and unverified claims covering the whole article would it
    Not a very good start if you want to claim facts and consensus is it

    Now you could ofcourse follow the links to the scientists statements where they give their views on the subject , but for every one of those that agree there is one that disagrees and a whole pile who sit between the two , not exactly a general consensus like is it

  24. #54
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Bush:conservative
    Obama:liberal

    sfts says: same thing!

    didnt say the president

    if you haven't noticed, a lot of Obama likes are sitting in congress



  25. #55

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    This is pretty much SOC101 material man. We don't have to use Wiki, though. I just thought the footnotes offered a good starting point. What would you consider an accurate source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post

    Now you could ofcourse follow the links to the scientists statements where they give their views on the subject , but for every one of those that agree there is one that disagrees and a whole pile who sit between the two , not exactly a general consensus like is it
    That simply is not accurate. There is a vocal minority that has asserted that the tests are biased, but no basis for these claims has been made. On the other hand, great efforts have been made to assure the tests are not biased, and the results have been the same. Note the socioeconomic comparisons.

    The debate is over why black people consistently score worse than whites and asians. I'm sure if you're at all familiar with the discussion, you know of the genetic versus environmental camps.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I will cede the his campagin contributions however do you realize how hard it is to get viable energy and mass produce like we have done with crude oil? The sheer cost of begining such a project makes me shudder. We need to get off it we just cant start throwing cash at it.
    A mandate that new home be "greener" then normal to help reduce energy use which is 90% petroleum based, would only adds only 5 to 8% to the homes cost. http://www.eco-smart.org/presentatio...-overviews.pdf

    How about forcing new cars purchased in the US to be more fuel efferent. The 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid cost $22,600 and gets 47city/ 48 hwy.

    Not a scary start.

    A national health care system will do more harm than good and cost the average joe more money.
    Did you read Obama's plan? He has five ways in which his plan would lower costs.

    Leaving Iraq will kill many more people the fact of the matter is the Iraqi goverment is in no position to "do something" right now and we need to face that.
    You do know that Obama would not pull all of the troops out at one time. A slow withdraw would force the Iraq government to move forward. With us setting there with no plans on leaving they have no reason to do anything.

    If we stay in Iraq for a long period of time, how long do you think our volunteer army will last? A draft in this country would not be a good thing.

    FDR started defict spending and created and artifical market with his new deal his economic policies are the reason our economy has a crippiling defict.
    Which got us out of a Depression, and feed people, and gave them jobs. Plus the Republicans who believe in "less government" have always added more to the deficithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...idential_terms

    To often people look at the short term and neglect the long term. Health care the economy energy they are all pressing issues however we need long term not short term soultions.
    Getting off oil will not have a long term benefit? Creating a system that will get more people health care will not help in the long term?

    I don't think that far ahead.
    That is why you seem uninformed and are losing this debate.


    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Exactly. Races are only different if you let people define what a race is. If you remove skin colour what is the difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Excluding differences in IQ, not much.
    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I'm struggling to find how that isn't racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Facts are suddenly racist?

    Im sorry. We're all exactly the same. Stupid science...
    Well since I submitted your original quote to Racists Say the Darndest Things! - http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/Default.aspx?archive=2 we will see if it gets approved and added to the quotes.
    Last edited by m52nickerson; 06-12-2008 at 04:54.
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  27. #57
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    That simply is not accurate. There is a vocal minority that has asserted that the tests are biased, but no basis for these claims has been made. On the other hand, great efforts have been made to assure the tests are not biased, and the results have been the same. Note the socioeconomic comparisons.

    The debate is over why black people consistently score worse than whites and asians. I'm sure if you're at all familiar with the discussion, you know of the genetic versus environmental camps.
    If we would presume this is true, the further question would be how much it matter? Considering that the in-group variation is much larger than the between group variation, I would say quite little.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  28. #58
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    I'm sure if you're at all familiar with the discussion, you know of the genetic versus environmental camps.
    Well yes PJ you have a fair point here, it does come down to the genetic vs environmental camps. I happen to be in the environmental camp myself, but thats the silly idealist in me I have tried to kill for years. You know, lets take people of different ethnicity from equal socio economic backrounds and see how they compare.

    Intresting discussion thus far, until you made this distinction I was decidely unintrested in the back and forths, but you've managed to list the one factor that might support your assertions.

    Thats assuming you fall into the environmental camp
    Last edited by Odin; 06-12-2008 at 12:17.
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  29. #59
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Hey, PJ lookee here. More really top-grade science that proves those who believe in God are stupider than atheists. IQ tests prove it, you see.

    As an on-topic example with which you will surely agree, we can use the Reverend Wright; who is both Christian and black, and therefore so dumb the thesis must be true for all cases.

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  30. #60
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama the White Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Hey, PJ lookee here. More really top-grade science that proves those who believe in God are stupider than atheists. IQ tests prove it, you see.

    As an on-topic example with which you will surely agree, we can use the Reverend Wright; who is both Christian and black, and therefore so dumb the thesis must be true for all cases.

    Is that a strawman or a red herring? I'm not sure which. Regardless, I think you could probably do better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    If we would presume this is true, the further question would be how much it matter? Considering that the in-group variation is much larger than the between group variation, I would say quite little.
    I agree. I think any differences are largely irrelevant as anything more than an academic curiosity. In terms of real world applicability, I don't see any.
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