Baktrian D-Day in Greece

**Jolt** · 06-23-2008, 20:48

Originally Posted by Lysimachos

there never has been any comparably systematic and inhuman administration of the annihilation of life than under the nazis

I'd suggest you read a book about the Mongol Empire. Hitler is worthy of seating right next to Jesus if he was ever compared to Genghis Khan. Yet he is idolatrated by the Mongols and studied with awe by many historians. Mongols were known for their brutality, any settlement who refused to surrender immediatly and was captured the whole entire population was wiped out. A few exceptions were those who actually had something to offer to the Mongols. All others, women and children, were massacred. And this happened from China up to Europe, going through the Middle East. Anyways, on with the figures: Lowest estimates are 30 million deaths. In an era more scarcely populated than ours, this is quite an achievement. The highest estimates reach over 60 million people.

Mao Zedong, through his great wisdom, also manages to make Hitler look like a Saint. Thanks to his "Cultural Revolution", systematics purges for the party who raised him and the "Great Leap Foward" he manages to kill, in the lowest estimates: 27 million people. The highest goes over 70 million. But since he is in the East, and the party currently in power is his own, I don't see many people rising in anger at the worshiping of such a man. Why don't you go around the Chinese websites saying the truth about Mao Zedong? Would you even care at the millions of Chinese scholars who publicy their academical essays praising all that Mao had done? Yet you would be outraged if a German one would praise the deeds of Hitler.

Do not give lectures about history. Hitler and his lackeys were sick, twisted people. But to consider the mentioning of "reich" and "panzer", etc as "Nazi Propaganda" is quite simply stupid. And there were people who comitted far greater atrocities that aren't even spoken of.

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 06-23-2008, 21:06

I really don't think Rycalawre was a nazi, I apologize when it came off that way.

What turns me off with his writing style is that I feel bad if someone uses German language just to funnily portray a nazi empire. I don't think he knows much German (correct me if I'm wrong), but what he knows are obviously some really "cool" nazi phrases. Put in some German words and hey, look how evil it turns. "Reich" is not a nazi word, it's just the German word for empire or (king)dom. The Swedish and the Norwegians have their Riksposten (sp), what is "Imperial Mail", and what would be in German "Reichsautobahnen" (Imperial Motorways), and their "Reichsgrenze" (Imperial border). But look, ooh, how evil and nazi-esque it seems now since we put it in German. Hahaha. I think we'll have to live with this pityful kind of humour forever.

**Lysimachos** · 06-23-2008, 21:43

Originally Posted by Jolt

I'd suggest you read a book about the Mongol Empire. Hitler is worthy of seating right next to Jesus if he was ever compared to Genghis Khan. Yet he is idolatrated by the Mongols and studied with awe by many historians. Mongols were known for their brutality, any settlement who refused to surrender immediatly and was captured the whole entire population was wiped out. A few exceptions were those who actually had something to offer to the Mongols. All others, women and children, were massacred. And this happened from China up to Europe, going through the Middle East. Anyways, on with the figures: Lowest estimates are 30 million deaths. In an era more scarcely populated than ours, this is quite an achievement. The highest estimates reach over 60 million people.

Mao Zedong, through his great wisdom, also manages to make Hitler look like a Saint. Thanks to his "Cultural Revolution", systematics purges for the party who raised him and the "Great Leap Foward" he manages to kill, in the lowest estimates: 27 million people. The highest goes over 70 million. But since he is in the East, and the party currently in power is his own, I don't see many people rising in anger at the worshiping of such a man. Why don't you go around the Chinese websites saying the truth about Mao Zedong? Would you even care at the millions of Chinese scholars who publicy their academical essays praising all that Mao had done? Yet you would be outraged if a German one would praise the deeds of Hitler.

Do not give lectures about history. Hitler and his lackeys were sick, twisted people. But to consider the mentioning of "reich" and "panzer", etc as "Nazi Propaganda" is quite simply stupid. And there were people who comitted far greater atrocities that aren't even spoken of.

I'm not going to exchange history lectures and i'm not going to discuss who is beeing praised how much and on which legitimation, because that doesn't affect the point of what i have said, so the only thing i will mention regarding the comparison to the Mongols or Mao:
I don't want to euphemize what they have done, but neither the mongols nor Mao have enacted plan and machinery to completely eradicate whole people and to create a superior race by obliterating anyone and anything which does not fit.
For an individual there is no difference if one is killed to secure power or because one is estimated as beeing without value for the planned breed, but i am still convinced that there is a difference in regard to human dignity.
Which does not make better what others have done, but i'm no one who said, jokes about everything else would be allright.

Besides, i don't consider mentioning of "Reich" and "Panzer" as Nazi propaganda, but i do consider mentioning of things that touch the inner workings of nazi ideology, as such:

inferior people [...] failed how the evolution decided.

Sie fordern Land und Boden!

I don't have to say something about the following, have i?

Baktria uber alles! Seig heil! [sic]

This should be enough.
I want to indicate that i have never said, Rycalawre was a Nazi, i just pointed out that i consider the report's style as very bad taste and this opinion has not changed and probably will not.

**Hax** · 06-23-2008, 22:58

Oh, please.

Say, can someone get MAA or TA in here to close this thread?

**Jolt** · 06-23-2008, 23:14

Originally Posted by Lysimachos

I'm not going to exchange history lectures and i'm not going to discuss who is beeing praised how much and on which legitimation, because that doesn't affect the point of what i have said, so the only thing i will mention regarding the comparison to the Mongols or Mao:
I don't want to euphemize what they have done, but neither the mongols nor Mao have enacted plan and machinery to completely eradicate whole people and to create a superior race by obliterating anyone and anything which does not fit.

The point you had made was that the Nazis were basically the people who cared less about human lives. The problem many scholars find was that the said Nazi exterminators who preached about murdering millions were good fathers to their children, good husbands to their wives, leading perfectly normal lives, by modern standards.

Sadly, it is an accepted thesis that the Mongols had a complexity of inferiority. In it, they see that the truth is that the peoples they dominated were much more populous than themselves. (Mongol/Chinese population difference being a blatant one). As such, they considered it "a necessary evil" to systematically exterminate the populations they dominated, so in the eventuality of an uprising, there wouldn't be so many of them left. I pretty much see this as a much worse than what the Nazis tried to enact. It'd be the same as if the Nazis began exterminating everywhere they passed. Millions of Polish, French, Dutch, Belgian and Soviet citizens exterminated. So yes, the Mongols did enact plans to exterminate entire populations. Mao is a special case. Whereas it is believed that Hitler's motives for rebuilding Germany (Which he did, despite the Worldwide Economic Depression, and that is quite a deed) and for the war, uniting "Great Germany", and conquering land for the "vital space" was in part to help the German people prosper and become an indisputable power as a people, being partly "unselfish" motives; whereas Mao cared little for his own people, what he really wanted was more power. Any reason for the development of his country was simply to garner more power so he could bully other countries, and being taken into account more seriously by others.

Originally Posted by Lysimachos

For an individual there is no difference if one is killed to secure power or because one is estimated as beeing without value for the planned breed, but i am still convinced that there is a difference in regard to human dignity.
Which does not make better what others have done, but i'm no one who said, jokes about everything else would be allright.

Difference on Human Dignity about death is simply too subjective to even discuss. The fact is that they die for equally stupid purposes.

Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Besides, i don't consider mentioning of "Reich" and "Panzer" as Nazi propaganda, but i do consider mentioning of things that touch the inner workings of nazi ideology, as such:

I don't have to say something about the following, have i?

This should be enough.
I want to indicate that i have never said, Rycalawre was a Nazi, i just pointed out that i consider the report's style as very bad taste and this opinion has not changed and probably will not.

Simulating a fantasy ancient Baktrian invasion using "inferior people" to describe their Greek enemies, and other phrases which are conoted with Nazism, leads to an extrapolation of Nazi Propaganda? Heck, I wonder around Paradox's forum on the game HoI 2 (World War 2), and many German AARs use those terminologies. Phreaps we should censor them for using certain words while RPing a game? That's what I call a "Nazist attitude" (Example: Grammar Nazi :P). Paleeze.