Let's talk about battle formations

[V.T. Marvin]

With the same army composition I would use probably the same formation as you did - I mean Quintus - , with the exception of putting peltasts in front of your front-line (spread rather thin to cover the whole frontage) and use them the same way as you would normally use velites - to pepper advancing enemy with javelins, then retreat behind the main line, then reform and use for reserve/flanking/pursuit-of-routers.

But it is precisely your selection of units I have a slight problem though.
Overall, your army composition seems to me as well optimized to be the most efficient.
But I would (for the hell of it) aim for more "historically-plausible" composition. I mean, first, celtic and hellenic units should probably fight in two distinct contingents, rather than being mixed together (something like the Roman legion and socii ala). Second, for a hellenic faction the army seems to me little bit too cavalry-heavy. Third, I miss those lousy low-tier militia troops, who usually formed a considerable part of almost any army in history. Therefore, what I would do as my Pergamene army line-up would be something like that:

.......---Celtic Slingers---...----Pelt--- ----Pelt---.....................
.........................................................................................
.......---CSp-- ---HKH---....--HH-- --CH-- --CH--......................
.......................................-----Akontistai-----......---KWb---...
-GalTind-...-CeltGen-..................................--GrGen--.............
.........................................................................................
--CeltCav--...............................................--GrCav--. ...........

******************
Pelt - Peltastai
CSp - Celtic Spearmen (as a lower class than Hoplitai Kelto-Hellenikoi)
HKH - Hoplitai Kelto-Hellenikoi
HH - Hoplitai Haploi (as a lower class than Classical Hoplites)
CH - Classical Hoplites
GalTind - Gallatian "Wildmen" - optional, just for the sight of them (could be replaced by Celtic Swordsmen)
CeltGen - Celtic General - a client ruler leading his men as an ally of the King of Pergamon
CeltCav - Celtic Cavalry - either light or heavy. Light should suffice for hunting routers
GrGen - Greek General
GrCav - Greek Cavalry - preferably light just for hunting routers
KWb - one or two units of Uazali, or Karian Warband, as allied flanking force, great to cut down phalanxes from behind
******************
Rationale: To make things more challenging = more fun. Smaller stack, weaker forces, two distinct contingents. Less cavalry.
Not as effective as your line-up, but that should not mind. BTW - I am indebted to you for your Guide to becoming a true Roman and I have used your prescribed army composition both in RTR and in EB and never regretted that. And it was not the most effective mix of roman units either. But it was both good enough, and historical and FUN! So I would suggest to invent something similar for other factions (like your brand new Pergamon) too! Just do not be lazy!

[Aaldaemon]

Overall, your army composition seems to me as well optimized to be the most efficient.

Not by a long shot imho. His is a fun army composition, in no way the most efficient.

I like your army btw, great fun composition that. Just without the wildmen... I have nothing against male nakedness, but I just don't like using them... rather use some Anatolian hillmen or the like for fun. (fun>efficiency hehe)

[V.T. Marvin]

Just without the wildmen... I have nothing against male nakedness, but I just don't like using them... rather use some Anatolian hillmen or the like for fun. (fun>efficiency hehe)

I would avoid them too, that is why I have suggested using galatian swordsmen instead (to keep the gallic flavour of that contingent).

Anyway, thanks for your appreciation!

OMG!!! 200th post!

[QuintusSertorius]

One of the things I was trying to do was reduce (yes reduce!) the number of Greek troops in the army. Reports of Pergamene battles I've seen suggest they used a lot of regional/mercenary troops, and weren't much into phalanxes or hoplites (so no Classical or Levy Hoplites - they're my garrison men). Keltohellenikoi are my Gallic compromise as "Galatian" men with Greek training.

I don't have Galatia, so I can't recruit Gaeroas or Kluddolon (well I can in Tylis, but that's a long way away). Can't recruit Vollotrix at all. There are some mercenary options, but I'm trying to keep that component down because of the difficulty in replacing them. Quite a few of my regional choices are doubly available as mercs (Keltohellenikoi, Thureophoroi, Kretan Archers, Thrakian Prodromoi and Thrakian Hippeis etc). I think it is about time I got some Curepos in there.

In another note, I tried out something broadly like the composition above, and it worked reasonably well.

Maybe, to take your point VT Martin, about smaller, more challenging armies, I could do something like this:

3 x Keltohellenikoi
2 x Thureophoroi
1 x Karian warband
1 x Galatian Tindanotae

1 x Sphendenotai/Iaosatae
1 x Kretan archer
1 x Peltastai

2 x FM
1 x Asiatic Hippakontistai
1 x Thracian Hippeis/Curepos

That's a 14-unit stack, rather than a 19-unit one, and less cavalry.

[V.T. Marvin]

Sorry Quintus, I did not realized that you do not own Gallatia yet and do not know much about Attalid Kingdom either. I have got your point. And I do very much like your new army composition scheme! Hope it will prove worth on the battlefield too.Good luck!

[Timoleon]

Maybe, to take your point VT Martin, about smaller, more challenging armies, I could do something like this:

3 x Keltohellenikoi
2 x Thureophoroi
1 x Karian warband
1 x Galatian Tindanotae

1 x Sphendenotai/Iaosatae
1 x Kretan archer
1 x Peltastai

2 x FM
1 x Asiatic Hippakontistai
1 x Thracian Hippeis/Curepos

That's a 14-unit stack, rather than a 19-unit one, and less cavalry.

I'm really looking forward to see how this "reduced" stack will do against a heavy 20-unit Seleucid Army. I guess there will be an AAR in your other thread. Good luck.

[QuintusSertorius]

Taking on board some comments from before, I'm thinking of making a minor change to composition - changing one of the Keltohellenikoi for Thorakitai, then making the right side of my army (from the Thorakitai in the centre) Hellenes and the left side non-Hellenes. The younger FM gets to be the guy in charge of the allied forces.