The Mongols invade SamWars mod...

[R'as al Ghul]

I think the Mongols should be a separate era otherwise they are going to upset the dynamic playbalance of the Sengoku era where both sides have equal attacking chances.

I absolutely agree. The Mongols vs. Japanese will be a seperate era.
There's no use in upsetting the fine balance of the Sengoku period that we have now.
I don't think that YC are overpowered in the era we play now. They're powerful and fast but I've seen many instances in which they were repelled by guns, eaten by YS and severly hurt by SA and YA.
There are many counter possibilities to that unit.
In the Mongol era we need to consider a new balance altogether to achieve where both sides can play aggressive or defensive, no matter what side they choose. The current stats can be used as a basis but need to be adjusted to suit the new situation.
Obviously the Mongols will have a focus on powerful cavalry and the Japanese will have stronger infantry. The Japanese should have some early guns, I think, maybe with higher morale than now and perhaps stronger melee capabilities which could be used to even things out a bit.
The scenario is that of an invasion, so maybe we could give the Japanese larger units than the Mongols have?
I'm just thinking out loud here....

Concerning the graphics, it's planned to import the original Shogun graphics for the Mongols as much as possible. There's plenty of space to import all of them and additionally we can consider to use the MTW Mongols. Whatever looks best. If we want to keep a unified look it may be best to use the STW Mongol cav because in MTW the horses are slightly larger and are separate mounts. For the Japanese Cav we are still using the files from STW where rider and mount are in one file.

R'as

[TosaInu]

Hello,

STW WE is pretty different from VI and the SamWars mod. The main differences here are no honour sellback and no bfu in VI.

The Superior Mongol cavalry can only, surely destroy the Japanese cavalry, when the Japanese have an equal number of cavalry or charge on their own. All Mongol cavalry is superior and a fair deal of the, weak, Korean Infantry is anti-cav.

The Korean Infantry however, is inferior to the Japanese in this game. That means that the Japanese faction can assign some infantry to support its own cavalry and beat both the Korean infantry and the Mongol cavalry.

The Mongols, in this game, have no superior firepower for a classic shootout. Sure, the MLC is very good. And nothing prevented to buy 8 or more cheap H0 ones in STW WE. That tips the balance quite a lot. That's simply impossible to do in SamWars though. My guess is that MLC's cost will be found to need be 750-800 (double the cost of STW WE 1.0 minus the tweak being applied to CA). At 9k you could buy 8 of those and 2 400 Koku support units. Kudos if that can, easily, beat 16 Japanese.

The Skirmisher, yes it's good, but only has very limited range. The amount of ammo should be reduced a bit. It's 4, it should be 3. But that's STW WE, now you can't field 3-4 devastating Skirmishers when also fielding 8 MLC. So, 4 ammo may still be good here. It's something to look at though, they can easily become too effective.


Turn the table: the Mongols are at a disadvantage. They are nearly forced to buy expensive, yet overpowered, cavalry. At the same time they should buy some weak and overpriced infantry to be able to field 16 units.

And the Japanese? When they buy lots of cavalry and send them out to suicide, they'll likely lose. A few will be handy of course, not to charge on their own, but to be kept in reserve. The Japanese will buy more infantry: 4 lsam and 4 ysam are a nice start. 2 CA will be nice for extra firepower, 2 nods to fight the Korean infantry, while slow, 2 ni will be nice to either help destroy Korean infantry or defend against MHC. Leaves 2000 for 2 extra units. JHC general and another ni?


The Japanese did not have firearms at the time, Mongols did have the thunderclap bomb though.

When the unit roster for the Mongol player is expanded, for example by adding another ranged unit, the game will become quite different, and something may need to be changed in favour of the Japanese. That's easy to do without disrupting the Sengoku era, as this is another period.

[Puzz3D]

In the Mongol era we need to consider a new balance altogether to achieve where both sides can play aggressive or defensive, no matter what side they choose. The current stats can be used as a basis but need to be adjusted to suit the new situation.

I'm not in favor of changing the stats of existing Japanese units, but you could remove or add units. You could change unit sizes, but it's difficult to balanced different sized units because melee performance is not linearly related to unit size

If you remove the YC from the Mongol era, you don't have to give MHC anti-cav ability. I think this would make it easier to balance the MHC and reduce its cost.

[Orda Khan]

I don't think two eras will help your mod in MP but it seems to be what you want, so I'll go back to other things and leave you to it

......Orda

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

i would like to see a composite era, with all units, crossbows, mongols, monks, guns,

remember
STW there are no monks, no guns, no ninja in mongols era