Regarding phoenicians and greeks

[Hax]

b)Pelops a Phrygian or Lydian that came to Greece and won a crown. The Peloponnese took its name from him

Wasn't he the grandson of Tantalos?

[Ibrahim]

Wasn't he the grandson of Tantalos?

or son? if he was the fellow who won his crown in a chariot race.

[Vorian]

Yeah he won in the chariot race...and he was son of Tantalus

[Cambyses]

Well, they were rivals and often enemies.

Dont forget aeneas supposedly sheltered with Dido in Carthage after the fall of Troy. ie even in such ancient times Phoenicians were allied to the enemies of Greece. Then of course the Persians used the Phoenician navy quite extensively during their empire. Again these often fought directly against the Greeks, espeically the Athenians. If I remember right various Athenian excursions to Egypt (supporting revolts against the Persians) were defeated by navies containing Phoenician ships. And dont forget Alexander's very bloody conquest of Tyre and Sidon.

Greeks set a lot of store by this kind of ancient history. Im sure the Phoenicians did likewise...

Also, the commerical rivalry cant be underestimated. In many parts of the world it would have been a familiar sight for greek and phoenician traders competing for the same goods.

[Vorian]

Well, they were rivals and often enemies.

Dont forget aeneas supposedly sheltered with Dido in Carthage after the fall of Troy. ie even in such ancient times Phoenicians were allied to the enemies of Greece. Then of course the Persians used the Phoenician navy quite extensively during their empire. Again these often fought directly against the Greeks, espeically the Athenians. If I remember right various Athenian excursions to Egypt (supporting revolts against the Persians) were defeated by navies containing Phoenician ships. And dont forget Alexander's very bloody conquest of Tyre and Sidon.

Greeks set a lot of store by this kind of ancient history. Im sure the Phoenicians did likewise...

Also, the commerical rivalry cant be underestimated. In many parts of the world it would have been a familiar sight for greek and phoenician traders competing for the same goods.

In my view the whole Greek-Phoenician conflict was like this.

The student (Greeks after Dorian invasions) manages to reach the teacher and they fight for the first place until the student finally surpasses and destroys the teacher. Greeks won that centuries old conflict with Alexander and the Phoenicians disappeared from the major scene, leaving only their Carthaginian relatives, that didn't do much until the Romans arrived.

[keravnos]

The Carthaginians didn't do much until Romans arrived?

You are obviously wrong here. In 400 BCE Carthagenians overturned and destroyed almost all the Greek colonies on Sicily but for Syracuse. It took a lot of effort by the Syracusans AND the invention of the catapult to push the Carthagenians back.

On the westernmost greeks front, the state of Massalia, a different sort of war was being waged, between Carthage and Massalia with the "borders" being agreed upon as the Iber river.

[Vorian]

The Carthaginians didn't do much until Romans arrived?

You are obviously wrong here. In 400 BCE Carthagenians overturned and destroyed almost all the Greek colonies on Sicily but for Syracuse. It took a lot of effort by the Syracusans AND the invention of the catapult to push the Carthagenians back.

On the westernmost greeks front, the state of Massalia, a different sort of war was being waged, between Carthage and Massalia with the "borders" being agreed upon as the Iber river.

I meant didn't do much from Alexander's time and afterwards. In the last war Agathocles almost took Carthage.