The Magnaura

[TinCow]

The Protoasecretes pounds his staff on the floor several times.

"The time for proposing legislation has now expired. Voting will commence shortly and will be open until 9am EST on Tuesday, July 22nd."

OOC: There are now 5 people signed up for the Crusade. This is better than before, but I would still prefer more.

[Ramses II CP]

OOC: Can I sign up for the Crusade twice?

[Privateerkev]

A letter arrives at the Magnaura and is read by an aide who works for the Order.

Your Highness and Senators,

News has just reached me of the atrocity that has happened in nearby Iconium. Antypatos Hypatios has directed the slaughter of over 6000 people. Myself and the Order of St. John condemns this action in the strongest possible language.

While some of us are going on Crusade to save lives, Hypatios has decided to cruelly end them back at home. His act was a blatant violation of Edict 3.2 and I ask that the Caesar level harsh punishments upon this man. Our laws can not be so flagrantly violated. I also ask that House Asteri consider punishing this man as well. His act is a stain upon that great House's honor. They need to disavow this man's actions immediately.

I ask just what is it that we are fighting for if we are going to butcher innocent women and children after we take enemy cities? Hypatios must be made to answer for both the eradication of Smyrna, as well as this latest atrocity at Iconium. If we let this action stand, then our laws are a joke and the Senate is little more that a rubber stamp for a few powerful people.

Repectfully,
Makedonios Ksanthopoulos
Antypatos and Grandmaster of the Order of St. John

[Kagemusha]

Representative of Ioannis Kantakouzinos stands up and reads from a letter

"My master congratulates the men involved in successfully assaulting Iconium. No mercy should be given to the enemies of the Empire. While some members of this senate are deemed for sure to raise issues against the sack of Iconium, many of them are just now preparing to invade Egypt, without any reason for war, other then their personal greed. Killing few or killing many doesnt differ much in the end. The importance can be found from the reasons for killing

Signed Ioannis Kantakouzinos
House of Komnenodoukai"

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios raises..

Perhaps we could send him exile for a year or to ..
There is that island with the watchtower between Greece and Anatolia..
I think year or two is enough ..

These are just my thoughts ..
I like the laws ..
I think they have a purpose..
So even a important figures like Hypatios should follow them..

He takes his seat..
Many would be suprised why is he still here but .. it is SO boring in the Crusaders camp...

[woad&fangs]

passing through the Magnaura, Solomon stops in shock upon hearing of Iconium's fate...

"I hope a Seljuk spear finds Hypatios' throat before he again finds himself in control of a city!"

Solomon takes a moment to calm down and then continues

"I expect Caesar Ioannis will deal with him harshly."

[Dafuge]

Iwouldn't comdemn anybody to death, not even the Sultan Annios.

[pevergreen]

"Annios, do not be so quick to jump to anger. The Tepaki must remain neutral. Stand down man."

[00jebus]

*Letter from Lisas, which is read by a scribe*

Life as a turk is hard, you have to ride everywhere, even in a city, everyone has to learn how to fire a bow and worst of all you are lead by incompetant morons.
If anyone chooses to live that life, by say, resisting our own glorious troops taking a few needed supplies from their homes, instead of joining our own empire when they had the chance than who cares what happens to them?
I certantly wont loose sleep over it, nor will any of the men I'm travalling with, dead enemies can't kill you after all, and if they did refuse such a chance at joining us than they will have been enemies eventually.

I also doubt that these were women and children that were killed, if the honourable and humble grandmaster could provide proof of this than he might have a point. Until then,

*the scribe looks over to the Asteri delegation*

He says to congradulate Antypatos Hypatios on a well faught battle and for killing the sultan, and for ignoring such an unfair edict.... and to reward him for killing the sultan.

[Ferret]

An Asteri scribe in Hypatios' livery looks pleased at the support offered by other senators, but makes no comment.

[Ramses II CP]

Gentlemen, this is pathetic. Iconium was a city of around eight thousand civilian souls before the battle, and the most recent accounting puts that number at just under two thousand after the battle. Those numbers do not include soldiers. If any man here would have me believe that there were six thousand shiftless but hale men lying about waiting for the first Greek to come along and slaughter them, but unwilling to pick up so much as a dagger in their own defense, I will call that man a fool and a liar. Tales passed from soldier to soldier speak of the most horrific abominations, of women abused before being butchered, of children decapitated for sport, and every sort of abuse piled on every moving thing that could be found. Word has it that even the dogs and camels were molested before being put down.

Any man who stands in this room and whitecoats this slaughter is complicit in it. We know what sort of man has committed these acts, and his black descent into destruction and madness is not in question. What remains to be seen is how the Emperor and the senators of the realm will be judged for their complicity in these despicable acts.

For my part, I repudiate them utterly, and the man who ordered them, and every soldier who aided in it. I say that they are not Greek, are not even the lowest form of beast, nor even worthy to be called worms that crawl through filth beneath our feet. I have a holy mission to complete, and after that has been dealt with we shall see what remains to be done to remove the stain on the honor of our people.

May God forgive the Greek people that they bore forth such a monster.

Vissarionas exits the Magnaura and does not return, staying at the shipyards or training facilities for his troops.

(OOC: Let's not pretend we're all a pack of naive idiots who never heard the word extermination before. Iconium is a major city on the trade routes and very near both borders of Byzantium. There is no chance this would pass as just another battle.)

[woad&fangs]

Hearing Michail's words, Solomon clenches his teeth. He grabs Hypatos' scribe by his collar and begins to speak.

I would ask God to have mercy on your masters soul but I expect even he has limits.

Solomon releases the scribe and leaves to make preparations for the Crusade.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios marches into the Magnaura.

The slaughter at Iconium was an abomination. There was no need or it. A city that was once ours, that could have served again as a vital part of the Empire is now a hollow shell.

Taking a city is never done without blood, but to destroy three quarters of the population for no reason is unconsciable.

I condemn Hypatios Machonios and his actions.

[Dafuge]

How can people not look down in disgrace at such an act. There is only one word to describe what happened at Iconium. Gencide. Pure cold murder. This was intentional, it wasn't even an accident or false orders. What disgraces me the most is that many of you who are staying silent were outraged at what happened at Antioch. And you are fine for a Crusade to save innocent people. Are you not ashamed? How do describe an innocent, a Catholic, A Muslim, a Hindu. You can't because all are innocent.

[Privateerkev]

The Grandmaster strides into the Magnaura with a grim face.

Gentlemen,

Since my army is currently stopped by the Templar roadblock, I have time to travel back here and speak in person.

Anyone who even attempts to defend Hypatios's actions is an idiot. While I strongly disagree with sacking, I can see how others would make an economic argument for it. But there is no economic argument that can be made for extermination. None. There is simply no excuse to exterminate whole populations. It is quite simply an evil act. An evil act which this Senate voted to forbid.

Not only was the evil act committed, but the will of the Senate was flagrantly disregarded and ignored. Anyone who defends this act is not only condoning cold-blooded murder, but is saying implicitly that they themselves should not be regarded when they make laws. Of course, those that condone cold-bloooded murder probably should not be regarded. But, by extension, they are saying the entire Senate can be disregarded at a whim.

The Senate voted to impose their own moral compass on their generals. Now, we are being told that some generals would like to simply ignore our will. If we let this pass, then every single law is in danger of being ignored. And as a governing body, we will have quite simply failed.

Therefore, I ask that Hypatios be immediately punished by his superiors. It is my hope that he be demoted to the point where he can not own his own army. And that he never again be allowed to command an assault on a settlement. He's already exterminated two settlements so it is not a far leap of imagination to assume he will exterminate more. In my opinion he should spend the rest of his years commanding a garrison of a inner settlement and only allowed to fight rebels armies. At least that way, he can't hurt anyone since rebels are always released back to their homes and farms.

Vissarionas is right that anyone who fails to act is also complicit in this horrible crime. Those who attempt to shield this man have blood on their hands as well. In fact, I would go so far as calling men who defend Hypatios as 'enemies of the Senate' since they support flouting our will and laws. I will remember the name of every man who even attempts to condone this dispicable act and shall keep it in mind in all future dealings between them and the Order of St. John.

[_Tristan_]

While silent until then, Methodios rises and glares at the Asteri benches.

Some years ago, people treated me as a fool when I warned of the drift that House Asteri was taking, towards becoming a House wont to commit atrocious acts. This led me to propose the first anti-extermination edict, which was gladly taken up and amended by the Grandmaster of the Oreder of St John in this new term of office for the Megas.

Is there nobody to remember the atrocities committed at Belgrade or Smyrna ? Asteri has blood on its hands... Blood that will never wash away...

Moreover the actions of Strator Machonios, for I refuse to grant him any of most respectable titles... The actions of Strator Machonios are a slap in the face of this assembly... He has just defied us... Will nobody rise and take up the challenge ?

I would do it and ride right now to Anatolia to bring down Machonios and any who seek to support him, by myself if need be but I can't for I have pledged myself to go to Egypt and save our Christian brethren there.

I hope one or more of you will rise to the challenge and avenge the honour of the Magnaura.

Just like the Grandmaster, I will remember any and all who stand to support the criminals among us when I'll have to deal with them.

If we do not, we are only inviting others to follow in Machonios' footsteps and trample the will of the Empire as expressed by its Senators.

[Kagemusha]

A rugged figure in torn clothes marches in the Senate while the Grandmaster talks. He sits down on the seats of Komnenodoukai and listens what the grandmaster is saying. Ioannis Kantakouzinos , now much older, bearded and strange fire in his eyes listens to the end, stands up and spits to the floor in the direction of Makedonias before starting to speak:

" So i am an idiot? Yes...That might be true. I have been idiot in the past, but after spending years in the North to no gain, while kinds of you are building up their own kingdoms on the expense of the Empire, has left me with little patience for insults.

So Hypatios has exterminated Iconium? So what. Was or or was not Iconium an enemy city? Of course it was once ours, like its now, but time between it was enemys, inhabited by the enemy. Giving no quarter to the enemy is idiocy you say? Then what is invading peaceful neighbors because of religious extremism and hunger for power is? Most of you sound like old women, with your sympathy for the enemy while the same time on the other hand, many of you are nothing but religious Jihadist, or powermongers cloaked as Jihadist. This is Bysantíne Empire, no, The Roman Empire, not some ragtag state of Europe or Muslim fanatics. Roman Empire does not crusade, we base our politics on political realism, not into religious extremism. Also our Empire has been known for our ruthless pollicies against our enemies, its fear that makes a mark to their hearts and gives our Empire respect in their eyes. I dont think from what should i be more worried about, about us acting like old women towards our enemies or the religious extremism and personal ambitions that are dangerous towards the power of Basileos. And last Makedonias, id like for you to withdraw your words calling me an idiot, or either i challenge you in a battle, with my personal men against yours. What say you Grandmaster?"

[_Tristan_]

Listening to what Kantakouzinos just said, Methodios just shakes his head.

And already we see what the lack of respect to the Senate's will has brought upon us, Senators defying fellow Senators to duels...

Indeed, Ioannis... You're an idiot... You've just proven it before all of us... You should have remained in your northern retreat, we wouldn't have thought less of you for doing so...

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis stands and looks in the direction of Methodios Tagaris:

"So defending one´s honour is now idiotic? There is now law that prevents me from challenging the Grandmaster, now is there? I dont care what you think of me Tagaris, if you want you can try and kill me in the field, if you cant stand my presence here in the Senate."

Kantakouzinos sits down gazing forwards with his feaverish eyes.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises an eyebrow at Kantakouzinos's challenge.

I'm sorry Kantakouzinos but you are indeed an idiot and you've just reinforced that notion for us.

If you even attempt to defend cold-blooded murder of thousands of women and children, your an idiot.

If you defend the flouting of our laws, thereby invalidating the entire governing body in the process, you are an idiot.

If you call supporters of the Crusade, which include His Eminence by the way, of being "religious Jihadist[s]," then you are an idiot.

I have no time for your insecure and immature attempt to defend honor you lack. After this debate is finished, I will ride to meet up with my army and take it to war against the Fatamids. You will have to be content sulking up in the wilds of the North.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis smiles to the Grandmaster and replies:

"Well i already said i might be an idiot, but at least im not a coward. Never before in the history of this Empire have we launched Crusades, but oh now that the Grandmaster who wants to have his own Kingdom together with the Patriarch decide´s to launch one against the will of the Basileos, its all fine. You are an Hypocrite while complaing about killing Seljuks,while you are yourself getting ready to attack Fatimids, without any real cause, im sure the widows and orphans of Fatimid soldiers protecting their country love you for being a gentle soul and caring so much about the Seljuks."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios shakes his head...

Now .. Calm down .. little kids..

I am part of the Asteri and even I don't like what Hypatios did..

There is a possibility that he got a bump on his head and .. well ... did not know what he was doing..

IF he gave that order knowing exactly what he did then .. that is bad..

I will wait for the Megas Logothetes to respond to these strong accusation against one of our Senators..

It is weird that he hasn't showed his face yet..

Does he really support Hypatios' ways??

[_Tristan_]

Noticing the fever burning in Ioannis' eyes, Methodios adds

Isn't there some screening tests to prevent us allowing madmen among our numbers ? Or perhaps should we begin to have some sickness tests also ?

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios turns on Efstathios.

I'd watch who your calling a little kid. Your House is responsible for the actions of it's members. Therefore, if you do not do something about Hypatios, your complicit in murder.

Turning back to Kantakouzinos

I'll not take charges of cowardice from a man who has run from every challenge in his life. While you've been wandering all over the North, I've been attempting to rebuild the Empire to it's former glory. Surely you can find some better way to serve the Empire than threatening it's nobles.

And I grow tired of attempts to somehow equate the slaughter of 6000 innocent civilians with a Crusade to save innocent civilians from slaughter. Anyone who sees them as the same thing, is an idiot.

And I'm not sure how the Egyptian army next to Antioch is somehow defending their country. They wandered into our land first. And the Fatamids will be shown far greater mercy than the Turks at Iconium. The Crusade targets will be occupied and I will release all prisoners from my battle with the Fatamid army by Antioch.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos stands up and first looks in the direction of Tagaris, then moving his eyes to the Basileos:

"I am servant of Basileos, like every man here. If he deems my behavior not fitting the senate, he can order me to stay away from the senate. Maybe in that case i should march east to serve my Caesar and who knows kill some Seljuks. I am just bit worried that maybe i might kill too many, while killing our enemies is so horrible in the eyes of the senators while attacking peaceful countries is so noble."

[Dafuge]

"im sure the widows and orphans of Fatimid soldiers protecting their country love you for being a gentle soul and caring so much about the Seljuks."

You say that, would they rather be widows and orphans that dead?

[_Tristan_]

I am not one to shy away from killing enemy soldiers... Everytime I fought, not one of them (or almost) has made it alive to fight another day...

But I can see the difference between a soldier and a farmer and his wife and kids...

Can you, Ioannis, or has the fever gone so bad that you can't even see the difference ?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios turns to Makedonios..

I will call you the way I want.. You should be happy that I don't call you sheep herders or something worse...

Our House needs to deal with this.. Yes it is true..

But you can not blame me for the deeds of another man just because we serve the same House!!!

He have higher rank than me..

It is not my decision what to do with him.. it is decision of the leader of this House!!

[Kagemusha]

With demonic smile in his face Kantakouzinos replies:

"Anyone who opposes the Empire is an enemy and our enemies should be rooted from this earth. If the women survive, in some time they will have children and when the children grow up vengeance in their hearts, we have enemies inside our empire. If you men are so fervent about God´s will in the crusade against Fatimids, why shouldnt we send the women and children of Seljuks to the purgatory, where God´s fire will clean them from all heresy that is Islam? As true Christians, you men should know life on this earth is misery, compared to joys of heaven. Why should we deny those joys from the Seljuks and Fatimids, crippling their families and leaving the women and chidlren to live in poverty and depending on sinful trades in order for the women to feed their children while we have killed the providers for those families? It would be mercy to send them all to God. Cruelty for leaving those people to suffer here on earth."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios turns to Ioannis..

Oh shut up already you old foul!!