Italy's action against the gypsies

[Viking]

Well Gypsies are a difficult issue.
Their lifestyle encourages people to crime and very often refuse to adapt to the more "normal" lifestyle of going to school and getting a job.
The standard response should be education but they disencourage it to their children.
But at the same time you have to stop the crimes that they commit and bring them before justice.
So really ?? What do you do ??

They're an ethnic group; your comment is nothing short of racism.

[TB666]

They're an ethnic group; your comment is nothing short of racism.

Luckily I live in Sweden where gypsies has overall adapted(kids going to school and all that).
But still do cause trouble.
I myself got robbed by a gypsy(same person that I had seen stealing in various stores together with his family).
There was also a story in Malmö with a store that outright banned gypies from entering their store since they were tired of them coming to their store and steal things.
Naturally it went to court where it was deemed to be illegal hence they had to let gypsies back into the store.
Unfortunately they never did a follow-up on it to see if things had improve or not.

Still I haven't seen a good solution tho.
It's either the "let's just kill them all/put them all in jail" or the "let's leave them alone since it's part of their culture and it's non-PC to even suggest doing something".
Would be nice with something in the middle.

[Viking]

Luckily I live in Sweden where gypsies has overall adapted(kids going to school and all that).
But still do cause trouble.
I myself got robbed by a gypsy(same person that I had seen stealing in various stores together with his family).
There was also a story in Malmö with a store that outright banned gypies from entering their store since they were tired of them coming to their store and steal things.
Naturally it went to court where it was deemed to be illegal hence they had to let gypsies back into the store.
Unfortunately they never did a follow-up on it to see if things had improve or not.

Still I haven't seen a good solution tho.
It's either the "let's just kill them all/put them all in jail" or the "let's leave them alone since it's part of their culture and it's non-PC to even suggest doing something".
Would be nice with something in the middle.

Then you better prove that it's got anything to do with genetics, which is what this is all about

[TB666]

Then you better prove that it's got anything to do with genetics, which is what this is all about

It doesn't.
Gypsies aren't born into thiefs and robbers, they are made into one because they want them to stay within the group and preserve their culture.
It's the same with honor killings and female circumsions.
Old cultural relics that has no place in today's society.
I don't really agree with this law but at the same time it might be the proper thing to do.
I guess they count on kids or adults to have or will commit a crime sooner or later and will have the fingerprints to arrest them fast.
And if they remain in the caravans I suppose that's a good guess on what will happen.
But the real solution is to get them away from the caravan to begin with.

I heard some countries(maybe Italy and some others), social service pretty much comes in and takes the children away.
A cruel way but again, maybe it is needed ??
Is it right to destroy these people's culture, a culture they fight so hard to keep if it raises children to be criminals ??

[Watchman]

People generally engage in petty crime to support themselves in the absence of more wholesome sources of income.

And let's face it, in some ways the Gypsies have had it even worse than the Jews for closer to a millenia. And it's only gotten worse in the last few centuries...

Not what might be termed a strong incentive to closely associate with the mainstream society around them is all I'm saying.

[Geoffrey S]

And let's face it, in some ways the Gypsies have had it even worse than the Jews for closer to a millenia. And it's only gotten worse in the last few centuries...

Not necessarily gypsies; most migratory groups have trust issues with their new neighbours. Gypsies just migrate far more often.

[HoreTore]

Well it's better than what we did to them a few decades ago....

(forced neutering, forced conversion in special camps, etc)

[Watchman]

Not necessarily gypsies; most migratory groups have trust issues with their new neighbours. Gypsies just migrate far more often.

That's how they got here in the first place after all; and their new neighbours generally didn't make settling down an attractive option most of the time either.

Not that it could have appeared like a very promising career change either much of the time, mind you. Peasant life was hard, insecure and often rather rigidly regimented.

Whereas conversely the sedentary folks were more often than not deeply suspicious of the nomads by default - and this was hardly limited to any given ethnic group either, actually. Are you familiar with the kinds of legislation against "vagrants and vagabonds" quite a few states had going until quite recently ? "Draconian" would be a fairly good description of their general tone...

And yeah, what HoreTore said.

[Viking]

It doesn't.
Gypsies aren't born into thiefs and robbers, they are made into one because they want them to stay within the group and preserve their culture.
It's the same with honor killings and female circumsions.
Old cultural relics that has no place in today's society.
I don't really agree with this law but at the same time it might be the proper thing to do.
I guess they count on kids or adults to have or will commit a crime sooner or later and will have the fingerprints to arrest them fast.
And if they remain in the caravans I suppose that's a good guess on what will happen.
But the real solution is to get them away from the caravan to begin with.

I heard some countries(maybe Italy and some others), social service pretty much comes in and takes the children away.
A cruel way but again, maybe it is needed ??
Is it right to destroy these people's culture, a culture they fight so hard to keep if it raises children to be criminals ??

These laws are based on ethnicity and not culture. If they are ethnic Roma, they are assumed to be thieves. Yeah, they should be sent to schools, though of course be taken them away from their parents; but that's another topic.

[Watchman]

You know, the state taking custody of the children of an undesirable ethnic minority and sending them to schools "for their own good" sounds an awful lot like how for example the Australians treated the indigenous populace not all that long time ago...

Yeah, I do indeed figure the Italian gov't is being a bunch of xenophobe-populist asshats. What gave me away ?

[Viking]

You know, the state taking custody of the children of an undesirable ethnic minority and sending them to schools "for their own good" sounds an awful lot like how for example the Australians treated the indigenous populace not all that long time ago...

Yeah, I do indeed figure the Italian gov't is being a bunch of xenophobe-populist asshats. What gave me away ?

Ideally, not by force. And this coming from Italy: not at all unexpected.

[BigTex]

You know, the state taking custody of the children of an undesirable ethnic minority and sending them to schools "for their own good" sounds an awful lot like how for example the Australians treated the indigenous populace not all that long time ago...

Yeah, I do indeed figure the Italian gov't is being a bunch of xenophobe-populist asshats. What gave me away ?

It also sounds incredibly familiar to what we Americans did to the Native Americans back during the start of the 20th century. Here I had hoped that in the west we had moved past this.

But what am I saying, the world is not a place rulled by hopes, and humanity. We'd better get to tagging all these vagabonds. While were at it we may as well start herding them, we want to know exactly where they are, can't be having these gyp's roamin free on us now can we?