WWI war of position period.
We're stalled ? Alright, time for another offensive. Machine guns and artillery ? Nothing that can't be dealt with a bit of bravery...
Or, in more general terms, applying 19th century warfare in the first 20th c. war.
Re: Worst military mistakes.
WWI war of position period.
We're stalled ? Alright, time for another offensive. Machine guns and artillery ? Nothing that can't be dealt with a bit of bravery...
Or, in more general terms, applying 19th century warfare in the first 20th c. war.
Re: Worst military mistakes.
War in general?
Re: Worst military mistakes.
Metaurus aka: why using fabian tactics doesn't work in Italy if you aren't the romans.
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
The Charge of the Light Brigade was so crazy it almost worked. If they'd stopped to spike the Russian guns, history might have remembered them a little differently.
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
Carrhae Carrhae Carrhae Bah... Yes it was a mistake ,But still no matter what path crassus or any other roman general (Even your beloved Caesar) would have been chose ,The outcome still would be the same. Do you really think EranSpahbad Suren would let the romans to take iran's soil easily?
Romans would be doomed at last ,As they did in their later campaigns.
Forgotten Empire
AW: Worst military mistakes.
French invasion of Russia 1812
Aleutian Islands Campaign in WWII
Peloponnesian War - Sicilian Expedition
Re: Worst military mistakes.
Don't remember the name of the battle, hopefully someone here knows what I'm talking about and can help me.
During WWI. British positions were taking cover in a trench, their goal was to advance onto a german fortified position, provided with stationary machine guns etc. The british officer in charge thought it would be a good idea to charge head on, all out infantry, on this fortified position.
The Germans were so shocked by this, they eventually stopped firing their guns and allowed the survivors to escape.
Last edited by tapanojum; 07-25-2008 at 10:52.
AW: Re: Worst military mistakes.
possible the battles of YpresOriginally Posted by tapanojum
german nickname for such battles "Die Knochenmühle" something like "the bonegrinder"
Last edited by Tartaros; 07-25-2008 at 10:58.
Re: Worst military mistakes.
Pretty much any battle in WW1. The whole thing was bloody stupid.
BOT, I would say that Arnham in WW2 was pretty bad, likewise was Charge of the light Brigade. Mind you, the latter was just misunderstood instructions, the commander sent the message 'Charge those guns', but the LBV got the wrong ones.
Re: Worst military mistakes.
I agree.Carrhae Carrhae Carrhae Bah
Romans would be doomed at last ,As they did in their later campaigns.
And before anyone attempts to argue:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...78&postcount=6
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...95&postcount=8
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...7&postcount=14
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...0&postcount=20
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...3&postcount=27
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...5&postcount=43
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...8&postcount=45
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...9&postcount=47
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...8&postcount=64
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...2&postcount=67
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...7&postcount=70
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...0&postcount=75
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...4&postcount=77
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...2&postcount=90
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...4&postcount=95
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...&postcount=102
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...&postcount=105
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...&postcount=113
In this thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140078
I doubt anyone has the energy to read all of this.
Carrhaë was a brilliant Parthian victory. A smaller Eastern cavalry force decisively defeats a significantly larger body of Romans, through an excellent strategical plan and thanks to swift interception. The Romans could barely pass Zeugma before they went in circles in the desert until the Parthians had mounted their move of defence. To just declare the Roman defeat as a moment of incompetence is to completely overlook the brilliance of Surena.
Hey, let's use the same fallacious reasoning and declare Alexander III The Great as someone who just picked his victories from an incompetent Achaemenid King of Kings who couldn't get anything right. Read a book for once, you dolts. Crassus did what he could, and worst of all, Marcus Antonius who did pick the "Armenian route" marched to Atropatene with a force of approximately 100,000 men, and fled with his tails between the legs. The Parthian King of Kings then was not the shrewd and cunning Orodes II, but it was the crazy lunatic fratricide Phraates IV.
*cue some Roman fanboy who is going to mention Trajan or Septimius Severus as a "response"*
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
I have long ago stopped attributing the success of a people or nation in war as due to their greatness as individuals. In other words, that the Persians repeatedly defeated Romans throughout history is not due to an inherent superiority as a people, just as Caesar’s success in Gaul is not due to the inherent greatness of his legionaries in being Roman. Cue the ideas of social Darwinism and nationalism. I am not saying you are doing this, I just want to be careful.
My opinion (and it is nothing more than that) is that the Parthians were able to inflict such crushing defeats on the Romans due to their respective methods of warfare. The "Parthian shot" was virtually impossible for an army based entirely around heavy infantry to counter. The testudo was worthless as the horse archers could ride right up to the legionaries and target their vulnerable limbs and faces. Even worse for the legionaries, they would quickly grow exhausted. Then the Parthians’ could pick them off almost at will (with the assistance of heavy cavalry of course). Cue Saladin at the Battle of Hattin--you don't need to inflict casualties on a heavily armored foe in the desert. Just forcing them to wear their full armor (or, in our case, remain in the immobile testudo) is enough, and horse archers are of course a most valuable tool for this purpose. Once the heavily armored troops are tired and broken the real slaughter may commence.
That is not to discount the genius of Surena. I merely wanted to point out the tactical superiority of the Persian armament on their home terrain as equally consequential in their repeated victories of Roman legions. So I agree with you, I just wanted to extend your argument further--Carrhae was not solely the result of a fleeting moment of Roman incompetence or Persian genius, but a culmination of many factors (including third party variables we haven’t discussed such as traitorous guides).
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
That is one of the most amusing and enlightening series of posts I've ever read, and highlights how little I really know about the Parthians. Seems that both Romans and Persians were awfully good at exploiting each others' little civil wars and internecine conflicts, and for every Herakleios (who, IMHO, was a total freakin' genius who really oughtn't have gotten dropsy in his later years) there was a Surena or a Pacorus. You mentioned the late Professor Shahbazi a lot; do you think there would be any English translations of any of his works that I could pick up?
Frankly I haven't a clue as to why it's so impossible to credit the Parthians with genius at Carrhae; it means that the Romans look better too, and that the engagement was more of a clash between an extremely skilled opponent and a competent one as opposed to a blundering farce on both sides.
As for real terrible military mistakes, I'd probably go with Demetrios' pursuit of Antiokhos off the field at Ipsos as opposed to keeping his cavalry where it could actually make a difference. While Antigonos still might not have been able to win the battle, he would have had a much better chance of things that way.
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
So that's why you joined the team. You can view alternate timelines.Carrhae Carrhae Carrhae Bah
Romans would be doomed at last ,As they did in their later campaigns.
I've had been wondering about that.
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Re: Worst military mistakes.
As always Sarcasm, your posts make my day.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
Re: Worst military mistakes.
For the Allies quite true. Not so for the Germans who used small unit tactics and infiltration.
See John Mosier's "Myth of the Great War" for a true account of the first World War
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