OOC Thread and Chatroom

[_Tristan_]

The "concept" turns out to be more of an impediment than an help in RPing our characters...

[AussieGiant]

The "concept" turns out to be more of an impediment than an help in RPing our characters...

That seems to be the case. But at least I now know what is going on. It was starting to become a little mystifying to me.

[_Tristan_]

The more so, than checking the triggers, I couldn't find one that got Methodios his "Disobedience" trait...

[TinCow]

I have looked through the game files and Offensive to Nobles is the trigger to the entire Civil War system that makes loyalty go crazy and eventually causes people to become 'locked' and rebel. If that trait was removed or neutered in the proper fashion, the Civil War system would essentially be switched off.

If you would like, I would be willing to do a new version of LotRMod which does the following:
Prevents the Civil War system from operating by removing or altering Offensive to Nobles
Removes all positive and negative effects from the Unwatched by the King and Has the King's Eye line of traits - or as an alternative, just remove them altogether.

These changes would be a one-time thing which would have to be re-installed by anyone who is hitting the end turn button (and preferably everyone) but we would never have to deal with these problems again if we did this. I would also edit the current save game to remove all of the Civil War traits that have popped up, to ensure that it does not occur this time either.

If you want this, just call an Emergency Session and we'll put it to the vote. Since I will be away for this afternoon, if someone wants to get this going, just propose the following Edicts and we'll move directly to a vote ASAP. Voting on each of these individually will allow the changes to be customized as desired:

Edict E3.1: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove all of the Civil War trait mechanics from the game.

Edict E3.2: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove the Near Loyalty and Far Loyalty (Unwatched by the King) traits lines from the game.

Edict E3.3: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove Title Stripped! line of traits from the game.

Edict E3.4: TinCow will create a new LotRMod which will remove Pagan Magicians from the game.

Edict E3.5: TinCow will prevent the current game from going into Civil War by removing all of the relevant traits from all avatars.

Here are all of the triggers that result in the Basileus getting Offensive to Nobles. These would have to be removed to prevent the system from triggering:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not1
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not2
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 10


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not3
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 20
and FactionIsLocal ;If the ai gets this big it deserves to STAY this big.


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Usurper1 ;usurper or asserting newly blue hued blood.
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 5
and Trait SonofKingPrince <= 0
and FactionIsLocal

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Usurper1ai ;usurper or asserting newly blue hued blood.
WhenToTest BecomesFactionLeader

Condition Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and SettlementsTaken >= 8
and Trait SonofKingPrince <= 0
and not FactionIsLocal

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------

Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite ;since the king isn't around... let's check again...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and DistanceCapital >= 50
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1
and FactionIsLocal ;not for the AI

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite_1 ;The King is a Bad Fink!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry < -5
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_expedite_2 ;The King is a Fink, sorta...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry < 0
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 1

;------------------------------------------
Trigger civil_war_or_not_progress_stop ;The King is a Truly, truly nice guy; reverse the possibility of war if it's not too late...
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry > 4
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 1

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles -1 Chance 4

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Unreasonable_Finances ;Despite his burdensome taxes to support war and other strange notions and we are still in debt!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Treasury < 0
and Attribute Authority <= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Religiona ;The King is not looking out for the salvation of our souls
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionExcommunicated
and IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and Attribute Piety <= 4 ;so it isn't just a political thing the Pope is perpetrating but truly, disgustingly, a deserved Excommunication!
and FactionIsLocal ;AI has a lesser chance

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Disgust_with_King's_Religionb_ai ;The King is not looking out for the salvation of our souls
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionExcommunicated
and IsFactionLeader
and Trait Offensive_To_Nobles = 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and Attribute Piety <= 4 ;so it isn't just a political thing the Pope is perpetrating but truly, disgustingly, a deserved Excommunication!
and not FactionIsLocal ;strictly AI

Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 2

;------------------------------------------

[TinCow]

The more so, than checking the triggers, I couldn't find one that got Methodios his "Disobedience" trait...

Once the Basileus gets Offensive to Nobles, all avatars eventually become Loyal or Disobedient. It's part of the Civil War system:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Loyalstarta
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0 ;as this is the initial step- no returning back...
and Trait Obedient = 0
and Attribute Loyalty >= 6
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Obedient 1 Chance 25 ;tended this way

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelstarta
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Attribute Loyalty <= 5
and Trait Disobedient = 0
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 25 ;tended this way

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelstart
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 33 ;about a third of the rest of the nobility goes down this path

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Rebelend
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 2
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 1
and not Trait Obedient >= 1

Affects Disobedient 1 Chance 33 ;eventually you WILL gain it it's just a matter of time...

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Loyalstart
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionLeaderTrait Offensive_To_Nobles >= 1
and IsGeneral
and Trait Disobedient = 0 ;as this is the initial step- no returning back...
and Trait Obedient = 0
and not IsFactionLeader

Affects Obedient 1 Chance 66 ;about two-thirds of the rest of the nobility goes down this path

;------------------------------------------

[_Tristan_]

Missed them altogether...

[Rowan]

I think this is what triggered the rebellion:

trigger Disgust_with_King's_Unreasonable_Finances ;Despite his burdensome taxes to support war and other strange notions and we are still in debt!
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsFactionLeader
and Treasury < 0
and Attribute Authority <= 5


Affects Offensive_To_Nobles 1 Chance 5

But this time it's actually the faction heir that has driven the empire into debt...

If this were a single player campaign I would actually like the mechanic but now it just messes up the game.

Btw does anyone know if there are any other surprises lurking in the traits system we should know about?

[Ramses II CP]

Ramses dashes by at the speed of sound trailing a brief, doppler distorted;

'ttttoooooolllldddd yyoooouuuuuu ssooooooooo.'



So if we're hotseat enabled could we just let the civil war proceed and actually play the rebel characters?

[Privateerkev]

3.1, 3.3, and 3.5 should definitely pass in my opinion. The civil wars are something we should do in the game ourselves IC and we have rules for it. And the title switching is something we do IC and we shouldn't be punished traitwise for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing 3.2 and 3.4 pass but I acknowledge that some people want the traits to reflect their loyalty and some people want to RP pagan magicians. In my opinion though, the near/far loyalty system and pagan magicians are far more trouble than they are worth.