OOC Thread and Chatroom

[_Tristan_]

I did not, however, during the course of my Chancellorship, knowingly violate a single rule.

And that is the single most important word in this situation... We're all human and bound to err but we can also choose to do it on purpose and that is not just the same...

[AussieGiant]

Understood Ramses. I agree with your last post.

I hope Igno is sincere with his apology. I thought his last sentence in 1644 was in this vein.

[TinCow]

Yeesh...

Yes, the rules about Private/Royal armies MUST be enforced in order for this game to work properly. As some have noted, if they are not the whole Civil War system becomes useless. At the same time, the rules are complex and breaches are inevitable here and there. Minor, unintentional breaches should be either ignored or pointed out and corrected as best as possible OOC because they will occur more often and making a big issue out of them will cause more problems than the breaches themselves. However, intentional breaches must be stopped very quickly because they are an attempt to circumvent the rules.

In this situation, Ignoramus has intentionally breached the rules, but in a relatively minor manner. The whole situation in the first place was caused by his innocent error in playing from the wrong save game file. Even then, it only amounts to the failure to recruit a couple regiments. While this could be a major issue in the middle of a Civil War or just prior to one, we're not in that situation as far as I can tell. Thus, the issue needs to be corrected, but I don't think Ignoramus needs to be flayed alive. He has already apologized and claims that he will fix the problem in the future. Let's leave it at that. If he does not fix the issue and problems continue to persist, then I will deal with it myself.

The IC issue of impeachment is just that: an IC issue. I will not get involved in it. If you want to impeach him, there are mechanisms to handle it. If I have to step in it will be for OOC reasons only.

[Kagemusha]

Yeesh...

Yes, the rules about Private/Royal armies MUST be enforced in order for this game to work properly. As some have noted, if they are not the whole Civil War system becomes useless. At the same time, the rules are complex and breaches are inevitable here and there. Minor, unintentional breaches should be either ignored or pointed out and corrected as best as possible OOC because they will occur more often and making a big issue out of them will cause more problems than the breaches themselves. However, intentional breaches must be stopped very quickly because they are an attempt to circumvent the rules.

In this situation, Ignoramus has intentionally breached the rules, but in a relatively minor manner. The whole situation in the first place was caused by his innocent error in playing from the wrong save game file. Even then, it only amounts to the failure to recruit a couple regiments. While this could be a major issue in the middle of a Civil War or just prior to one, we're not in that situation as far as I can tell. Thus, the issue needs to be corrected, but I don't think Ignoramus needs to be flayed alive. He has already apologized and claims that he will fix the problem in the future. Let's leave it at that. If he does not fix the issue and problems continue to persist, then I will deal with it myself.

Wise and considerate decision as usual from you.

[Privateerkev]

Alright, then I will simply push this as far as I can IC.

OOC, I am fine as long as this gets fixed next turn. IC, this isn't over...

[Andres]

For somebody who is usual rather strict about regulations, it is... refreshing to defend Igno's actions IC. I'm starting to like this roleplaying thingie

[AussieGiant]

Thanks for the feeback TC. The OOC summary is clear.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Crazy people!!!

I just spent 30 minutes to reading all these posts!!

How did you managed to post 4 pages within 10 hours??

Crazy people I say!!

[Privateerkev]

How did you managed to post 4 pages within 10 hours??

It's a gift...

[_Tristan_]

One of the many the LotR players have... (starts counting : starting heated debates : check, post 4 pages in 10 hours : check...)

[Cecil XIX]

I hope that a slap on the wrist does not become the standard punishment for willingly breaking the rules. We'll see how it goes.

[Rowan]

[TinCow]

I do not believe I am being too lenient. If Ignoramus corrects the problem immeditately, it will have existed for a grand total of 1 turn. If he does not, I will take further actions which I assure you will be more than a slap on the wrist. That seems fair to me.

[Privateerkev]

I hope that a slap on the wrist does not become the standard punishment for willingly breaking the rules. We'll see how it goes.

I would not be opposed to seeing Armatos's army appear out of thin air this turn. There are more than enough mercs on Nicosia, and recruitment options in the Order's territory to make this army right now.

This shouldn't even be considered IC. With such an unfriendly Megas, basically Armatos is putting out a call for troops to come and serve him. There is still the possibilty that if it is recruited IC, the Megas will just strand the army on an island or recruit things on the other side of the Empire. While these seem to be viable IC options for a Megas, I do hope for OOC reasons that this does not occur in this case. If the only thing that comes from this is a recruited army stuck on an island, I will feel dissapointed...

If we're not going to punish Ig OOC, (or even IC...) then immediate reperations seem to be the least we can do.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have announcement..

Because my 1,5 year old son scratched my medieval game disk then from tonight on I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on the game

So until I don't know how to go on from this..

I like this character and like this game so..
Perhaps someone could fight the battles before me until the Crusade is over..
After that I would probably like to keep him in some city so I could still play him..

Need to buy a new game though if I want to be part of this game fully again..

[flyd]

You could get a no-cd patch thing. That's what I've been doing since the DVD drive on my desktop failed several years ago.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

You could get a no-cd patch thing. That's what I've been doing since the DVD drive on my desktop failed several years ago.

Yes, that I should have get before I uninstalled the game though
But looks like I need to get the new game cause I've been said that that is the only option

EDIT: Thanks to those who tried to help! I appreciate this!

[GeneralHankerchief]

You could get a no-cd patch thing. That's what I've been doing since the DVD drive on my desktop failed several years ago.

Wait wait wait, can you tell me more about this?

[Cecil XIX]

I do not believe I am being too lenient. If Ignoramus corrects the problem immeditately, it will have existed for a grand total of 1 turn. If he does not, I will take further actions which I assure you will be more than a slap on the wrist. That seems fair to me.

Ignoramus has been a part of the Throne Room for longer than I have and I've never noticed him causing problems like this before, so I'm not doubting his sincerity and I do agree that it's appropriate for this specifc instance though, as it's the first time it's happened in LOTR.

I'm just worried about the precedent, since there's no guarentee we'll notice a rules violation after the first turn it happens. If people think they can bend the rules and then avoid punishment merely by stopping after they've already been caught, it could be troublesome later on.

Wait wait wait, can you tell me more about this?

I believe those things are of questionably legality.

[_Tristan_]

It is against Org policy to talk about such things... Beware of Mod's wrath...

EDIT : No-cds, I meant..

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ah, all right. If it's not on the up-and-up then I'm not interested. Apologies to TC.

[TinCow]

I'm just worried about the precedent, since there's no guarentee we'll notice a rules violation after the first turn it happens. If people think they can bend the rules and then avoid punishment merely by stopping after they've already been caught, it could be troublesome later on.

Well, I'm the only person running this game and I have no problems being completely and utterly inconsistent in my rulings, so I don't think you need to worry about precedent. I will do whatever I think is best for the game in any particular situation, even if it blatantly contradicts something that I've done beforehand.

Also, there's a major difference between someone intentionally violating the rules with intent to harm someone else by doing so and someone intentionally violating the rules but without realizing the harm that it would cause. In law, we call this malice aforethought and it's the difference between murder and manslaughter, and thus between the death penalty and a very short prison sentence. In this case, Ignoramus definitely knew he was violating the rules, but it does not seem to me like he was trying to hurt anyone in the process. That's a significant factor to consider when determining a punishment.

Ironically, the latin term for malice aforethought (scienter) is my wife's internet handle.

Because my 1,5 year old son scratched my medieval game disk then from tonight on I wouldn't be able to keep an eye on the game

If the scratch isn't deep, you can remove it relatively easily with some normal household products. Toothpaste works pretty well. Just use a clean cloth, put some toothpaste over the scratch and rub until its gone. It might take a while, depending on how deep it is, but it's a lot cheaper than buying a new copy of the game.

[Privateerkev]

In this case, Ignoramus definitely knew he was violating the rules, but it does not seem to me like he was trying to hurt anyone in the process.

He was absolutlely trying to hurt us IC by his own admission. He was trying to find ways to get out of giving Cecil an army.

Of course what complicates it is that there was actually two rules in question.

Ig admitted to trying to hire mercenaries so he wouldn't have to recruit. He stated on here that he believed that could get him around recruiting an army for the Order.

But, he also broke another rule that is clear cut. And that is when he built things while armies still needed filling.

Now, whether he built things with the knowledge that he was breaking that rule is unclear. What is clear is that he was trying to find any way possible to avoid giving the Order their army.

In the course of his turn, he deliberately tried to circumvent the rules in order to punish his IC political opponents. (If you want, I can dig up his OOC comment.)

*edit*

Here it is.

[Ramses II CP]

So tomorrow I'm going to sail to the nearest landmass, recruit all available mercenaries, and hop back aboard ship. I'm not hurting anyone and it's my first time breaking the rules, so I think I can expect a free pass.

[Privateerkev]

Please know that as much as I am telling people to break the rules IC, that is the last thing I am advocating OOC.

[Ignoramus]

I'd like to clear up a misunderstanding her.

I never knew that armies and construction were tied together. I thought that prioritised buildings had to be built before any other construction, so I built the Wooden Castle at Aleppo. I didn't seee the rule that you had to recruit for royal and private armies before prioritised buildings.

I really am sorry for breaking the "unbreakble" rules, because I know that they're an essential part of the game. I'll fix up the problems as soon as I can, with apologies to those affected. I never intentionally broke the OOC rules.

Also, please don't get too harsh on me. FLYdude as Megas hadn't strengthened my royal army to the minimum legal OOC requirement, and he voted for me, so it shows how confusing the Megas' job can be somethimes.

Once again, sorry, specifically to PK and the Order.

[Privateerkev]

Thanks for that Ig. Things are cool OOC on my end.

[flyd]

That's cool, but I really think people need to stop accusing me of not building up the armies.

Caesar's army was stated as under the command of Ituralde. It was missing a pair of horsemen. Igno told me to recruit some (expesnive) merc horsemen into his stack, and I did. There was now one royal army between him and Ituralde, which was all they were eligible for at the time.

[Kagemusha]

I have been looking at the armies in the game and for example Overknight´s royal army is lacking either one horse unit or a archer unit still. So it has been basically understrength from the beginning, but no uproar have been heard from him. I think that because Megas are human and human´s make mistakes, these kind of things will continue happening.
In my opinion it should be left to Tincow´s good judgement to judge which errors might have been intentional and which not.

[Rowan]

I'd like to point out that it is quite different if an already established army is one regiment short of regulations (especially after battles or if it is divided between two persons), or that a person that recently became eligible for private army doesn't get one after repeatedly being pointed out that one should be recruited.

Furthermore, it is an OOC rule. Impartial, set in stone, part of the mechanics. If you are looking for loopholes in OOC rules then you are by definition mixing IC and OOC aspects of the game. And that in my opinion is malice aforethought.