Heavy Fighting in South Ossetia

[CrossLOPER]

NATO is not seen as the only problem. If Ossetia is taken by Georgia, there are fears of genocide, or at least general instability. If this occurs, the entire area might go the way of Chechnya and cause total chaos. That is the primary concern of the Russian Government in the region.

Saakashvili, who won his election along with the promise that he will "win back" breakaway regions, started this mess, on the day the Olympics start no less, because he feels the West will back him through any move he makes, despite the fact he has a controlling government that sends riot police after anti-government protesters, who on occasion end up in hospitals. Put yourself in one of those breakaway republics for a moment. Would you want to join a guy who bombs you into oblivion and will probably try to finish the job afterward, or a much more stable country that at present has tried to protect you and whose country pays the average worker four times as much?

I can't say with a straight face that Russia is 100% in the wrong here.

[Oleander Ardens]

First of all the situation is very murky. Hard to say who started this little war, Southossetian seperatists with or without Russian backing to provocate Georgia or Georgia who wanted to take what is legally theirs. The overall strategies are however much clearer.

Russia wants to keep the remaining ex-soviet brotherstates under tight control and has been openly supporting the seperatists ever more heavily for years now, using them as stawmen to threaten the democratic Georgia. His pro-european president is seen as a thorn in their side. Both regions supported by Russia had been offered a large autonomy, but the refused it thanks to Russia. The big difference between Kosovo and SOssetia is that Georgia didn't start an ethnic cleansing while Serbia did so. So Georgia is both morally and legally entitled to take what is theirs, even with military force if necessary.

As a matter of fact Russia is now an open and clear agressor with an imperalistic agenda, a bit similar to the USA and the UdSSR in various phases of their history.

[Marshal Murat]

Even the charge of ethnic cleaning is very hazy in this situation. While Russia has accused Georgia of ethnic cleansing of the Ossetian populace, the actuality and veracity of those claims cannot be established in this current situation.

Russian Bombers strike pipeline
Georgia Proposes Ceasefire

[Sarmatian]

The big difference between Kosovo and SOssetia is that Georgia didn't start an ethnic cleansing while Serbia did so.

No. Prior to bombing campaign, there was around 2000 casualties after two years of conflict between the police and KLA. Those 2000 includes KLA, Serbian police officers, and both Albanian and Serbian civilians and last two groupes make the smaller part of those 2000 casualties.

So, either those hundreds of thousands Albanian civilians that were mass executed on football stadiums came back to life or there were no ethnic cleansing.

[Viking]

NATO is not seen as the only problem. If Ossetia is taken by Georgia, there are fears of genocide, or at least general instability. If this occurs, the entire area might go the way of Chechnya and cause total chaos. That is the primary concern of the Russian Government in the region.

Saakashvili, who won his election along with the promise that he will "win back" breakaway regions, started this mess, on the day the Olympics start no less, because he feels the West will back him through any move he makes, despite the fact he has a controlling government that sends riot police after anti-government protesters, who on occasion end up in hospitals. Put yourself in one of those breakaway republics for a moment. Would you want to join a guy who bombs you into oblivion and will probably try to finish the job afterward, or a much more stable country that at present has tried to protect you and whose country pays the average worker four times as much?

I can't say with a straight face that Russia is 100% in the wrong here.

Let's just call them both mad as nutters.

Nationalism alongside authoritarian right-wing governments is always a scary combination...

Forgotten the acts of Mao's China and the Soviet Union, have we?

[ICantSpellDawg]

NATO troops should be on Georgia's Black Sea shores by now. Russia is attacking Georgian pipelines, Georgian civilian cities, Military bases around the capital, all of which should alert everyone as to their true motivations.

[Adrian II]

NATO troops should be on Georgia's Black Sea shores by now. Russia is attacking Georgian pipelines, Georgian civilian cities, Military bases around the capital, all of which should alert everyone as to their true motivations.

Yes, it's called surgical bombing, shock and awe, infrastructure deterioration, etcetera - you probably know the concept.

Countries do that to each other from time to time. It's called war. No need to go hysterical and turn it into a world war.

Russia will want de facto control over some of the break-away regions and I think they should have it. As far as I can tell Georgia unleashed the military phase of the crisis and it will have to eat some dust before it accepts the changed reality. Russia will also want to increase its control over the Caucasus because it is an energy transport hub. The Georgians should have thought of that before.

Of course we all wish for a different gentleman to rule the Kremlin, but for the time being let's leave that issue to the Russians, shall we?

[Conqueror]

Russian motivations here seem obvious enough, but I fail to understand the Georgian government's decisions. Why would they want this war? Even if they'd somehow manage to annex South Ossetia they'd be fighting not only the ruskies but also local guerilla resistance, in a mountaineous land with a hostile population. And with slim chances of actual direct intervention by NATO. It seems like an enormous gamble to me.

What could they possibly hope to gain, even in best case scenario? A little stretch of land added to their's on the world map? Some extra length on the national penis? It boggles the mind

[King Henry V]

Russian motivations here seem obvious enough, but I fail to understand the Georgian government's decisions. Why would they want this war? Even if they'd somehow manage to annex South Ossetia they'd be fighting not only the ruskies but also local guerilla resistance, in a mountaineous land with a hostile population. And with slim chances of actual direct intervention by NATO. It seems like an enormous gamble to me.

What could they possibly hope to gain, even in best case scenario? A little stretch of land added to their's on the world map? Some extra length on the national penis? It boggles the mind

I think you'll find that the little stretch of territory is already theirs on the world map.

[CrossLOPER]

Russian motivations here seem obvious enough, but I fail to understand the Georgian government's decisions. Why would they want this war? Even if they'd somehow manage to annex South Ossetia they'd be fighting not only the ruskies but also local guerilla resistance, in a mountaineous land with a hostile population. And with slim chances of actual direct intervention by NATO. It seems like an enormous gamble to me.

What could they possibly hope to gain, even in best case scenario? A little stretch of land added to their's on the world map? Some extra length on the national penis? It boggles the mind

Saakashvili won the Nationalist ticket by stating that he will take back breakaway regions. He is utterly convinced that the West will back him no matter his motivations. He is unable to improve the conditions in his country, so he decided to play "military tough guy". The problem is is that no one in the Caucasus likes Georgia and would much rather side with Russia, or anyone who isn't connected to Georgia. This includes Chechens.

As for the ceasefire, well... It's kind of hard to trust someone calling for a ceasefire while they are shelling you.