Where's TW going?

[Galapagos]

I open this thread to ask your oppinion about the TW game that will come after Empire.I would like a WW1 game where trenches warfare would be a nice option.

[Martok]

I sincerely hope that never happens. The Total War series would not translate well to modern warfare.

I would like to see the next game in either ancient Greece, ancient China (think Spring & Autumn period), or possibly a fantasy setting.

[Quintus.JC]

I would like to see the next game in either ancient Greece, ancient China (think Spring & Autumn period), or possibly a fantasy setting.

Spring & Autum plus the Warring States. That would make a heck of a game. The time-frame would be superb... but my only worry is about the available units, all the Factions are practically Chinese apart from few tribes and nomands. It wouldn't be so much fun if all the factions have almost identical units.

[Galapagos]

Thats why a WW1 would do perfectly.Just imagine that instead of creating citadels you create trenches that can be occupied by you soldier.That isn't so hard to acomplish as i think that usable buildings are allready present in E:TW but thats just my dream and there isn't so much of a difference between the technology in E:tw era and ww1 era.

[Warmaster Horus]

Well, yes, there is: tanks, planes, submarines... Basically anything motorized started to appear in WWI.

[CBR]

Yes there was a big difference. There is a reason why the birth of modern day infantry tactics happened in WW1. The days of close order infantry combat were pretty much gone with the introduction of magazine rifles. Adding quick-firing artillery and machineguns to the mix and it was a very different battlefield.


CBR

[A Nerd]

I wish they would do another Shogun game. That game was SO much fun and the samurai setting was so fun and unique. Perhaps there are other millitary units they didn't touch upon? Not really a historian. Mabey the same amount in some sort of expansion pack? Wouldn't that be nice?

[PBI]

I have previously laid out my views on the problems and possibilities of a WWI mod in this thread, so I won't repeat them here. Basically, while I feel I would certainly like to play a WWI mod, since it is one of my favourite periods of history and I feel it is unfairly underrepresented in games in favour of WWII, I simply don't think there is enough scope there for a whole 30GBP TW game which would be interesting enough for long enough for me to get my money's worth. For starters I think it would be a bad idea to make a whole TW game focussed on a single 4-year conflict rather than a broader historical period.

I strongly feel the next TW game should have a Asian setting, preferably China since it is virgin territory for the TW series whereas Japan has been done. My preferred scenarios would either be Mongolia: Total War, set around the rise of the Mongol Empire; or else Ming Dynasty:Total War (though probably with a better name than that), based essentially on a "what if" scenario of the Ming dynasty taking a more expansionist policy and getting in on overseas imperialism 100 years before the Europeans. Failing that though, pretty much any Far East setting would make me happy.

Incidentally, Welcome to the Org, A Nerd.

[caravel]

"Modern" warfare would not work in TW games because modern war involves artillery, airpower tanks,etc, and TW games are very much formation based warfare "sims". Also the trench warfare will simply not work in a TW game. Having the units as "units" wouldn't work either. This is why modern warefare games tend to be squad based combat, flight sims, naval sims etc.

[Quintus.JC]

No melee, no fun.

[PBI]

No melee, no fun.

Do we know that for a fact? Personally I intend to see what Empires does with ranged combat before drawing any conclusions on that.

[Quintus.JC]

Do we know that for a fact? Personally I intend to see what Empires does with ranged combat before drawing any conclusions on that.

Imagine a battle in Medieval II: Total war where it's the Spanish against the English. One army made fully of Musketeers and Culvrines while the other entirely of Arqbusiers and Grand Bombards, without any cavalry or melee infantry. That wouldn't be much fun would it?

[PBI]

Not for very long, no, but the same is true of a battle consisting solely of one type of heavy cavalry, say. Seems to me the problem there is a monoculture of units, not specifically that the units are ranged.

Just because gunpowder tactics in M2TW weren't particularly interesting, doesn't mean they can't be interesting. Bear in mind Empires will be built around gunpowder tactics, whereas in M2TW they mainly existed just to show that the medieval units were obsolete.

EDIT: In fact, now I think about it, so long as the kill rates for gunners were dialled down a bit so as not to make it a total mismatch the battle you describe could be quite fun, trying to win as England despite being outranged and outclassed.

[caravel]

The era covered by Empire is do'able but WWI is not. The dynamics of the TW engine cannot really represent the trench warfare of the time. The units in all TW games and Empire will be no exception, have been formation based as this is how the game is fundamentally designed. The TW engine simply won't lend itself well to this type of game.

[Martok]

The era covered by Empire is do'able but WWI is not. The dynamics of the TW engine cannot really represent the trench warfare of the time. The units in all TW games and Empire will be no exception, have been formation based as this is how the game is fundamentally designed. The TW engine simply won't lend itself well to this type of game.

Agreed. Also (as PBI pointed out), I think it would be a mistake for a Total War title to focus on a single conflict lasting only a few years, as opposed to a broader historical period.

[Xehh II]

I want ancient greece.

[Azi Tohak]

CA will do whatever their marketing people say will give the best ROI. I think a pike-shot era would be great (like the end of M2TW up to start of ETW). However, that has already been done (if you can play the game for 20,000,000 turns to get there) in M2TW. I have always been fascinated by the change from spears and arrow to muskets and cannon.

I imagine that the next game will have to be European just because of money issues. R2:TW maybe? Going from Persia up through the Barbarians. I think the Naval engine would be fun for say Salamis or Ecnomus. Or maybe from very ancient (Ramses II) up through Alexander the great?

I just don't see how the company can move from the European focus because of lost money. Look at STW. Fantastic game that I don't think sold very well becasue it was so esoteric. Good enough start for the best series of games on PC though!

Azi

[Proserpine]

How about something set in, say the 16th to 18th Centuries? I.e. the period between the end of MTW2 and the beginning of Empires. Lots of possibilities, world spanning, massive conflicts. Campaings could include: Netherlands v Spain (130 years), 30 years war.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I sincerely hope that never happens. The Total War series would not translate well to modern warfare.

I would like to see the next game in either ancient Greece, ancient China (think Spring & Autumn period), or possibly a fantasy setting.

Argeed. I think TW will be running out of ideas soon, which will make CA/Sega do remakes of the games, and once that happens........


But I like to see a Fantasy Game Also.

[Warmaster Horus]

We've had M2, so it's logical to think R2 and maybe S2 will come someday... But besides that, I agree with the others: modern warfare and TW should never mix.

[Quintus.JC]

FAR EAST!!!!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

How about something set in, say the 16th to 18th Centuries? I.e. the period between the end of MTW2 and the beginning of Empires. Lots of possibilities, world spanning, massive conflicts. Campaings could include: Netherlands v Spain (130 years), 30 years war.

I hope to see this timeperiod covered too

[seireikhaan]

East Asia, preferably set around the rise of the Mongol Empire. Xi Xia, Song, and Jin dynasties, Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Tibet, Khara Khitans, Delhi Sultanate, Khmer, and I would spread it west to include Kwharazm and Abbasid dynasties in the middle east.

[gNostic Heretic]

Ah, the joy of yelling! Far East!!! I've been a big fan of Southern Song culture for a while now. The population statistics and the growth of a massive entertainments industry point to a civilisation very much at peace with itself; so, not ideal TW territory. However, Khymer, Korea, Warring States, Mongolia and Feudal Japan are all great possibilities. As I recall, there may be some substance to Chinese claims of having discovered, but not claimed the Americas. If India and the Indonesian archipelago could be brought in, me tinkin' we got ourselves a game.

Why doesn't someone who knows how to do these things set up a poll?

[Quintus.JC]

Ah, the joy of yelling! Far East!!! I've been a big fan of Southern Song culture for a while now. The population statistics and the growth of a massive entertainments industry point to a civilisation very much at peace with itself; so, not ideal TW territory. However, Khymer, Korea, Warring States, Mongolia and Feudal Japan are all great possibilities.

Combining the Period of Northern Song and Southern Song then we might very well get a good game, the rise of various kingdoms from the steppes... and eventually the Mongols does sound rather intriguing. And if that doesn't wasn't enough, they could get the turbulent Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period involved, which happens to exist right before Emperor Taizu of Song unified China.

As I recall, there may be some substance to Chinese claims of having discovered, but not claimed the Americas. If India and the Indonesian archipelago could be brought in, me tinkin' we got ourselves a game.

That's a bloody good idea, although the time frame would be too much of a restriction. Even with the advanced technologies of China I could not imagine them discoverying the Americas before the Ming dynasty.

Why doesn't someone who knows how to do these things set up a poll?

Lot's polls has been done, besides there are far too many options...

[PBI]

Hey, I'll have a go too. FAR EAST!

I believe the theory is called the 1421 hypothesis, the idea is that the Ming dynasty discovered America, and then later destroyed all records of it when China became more isolationist. Pretty sure there's no real substance in it, but I suspect they probably could have sailed to America if they'd ever been interested in doing so.

Certainly the voyages of Zheng He were quite spectacular, taking an entire fleet west as far as East Africa. Hence why I think there could be scope for a game set in this period; unusually for the Far East, there's scope for both naval action and gunpowder to feature prominently, which for me makes it a stronger contender for an Empires successor than, say, Warring States period.

[Quintus.JC]

Doing a poll right now.