Best army composition for....

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

SPQR: The best composition is in fact the historical line-up

1x Velites (Leves in Camillan times)
1x Accensi (or better local missile)
2x Hastati
2x Principes
1x Triarii (2x in Camillan times)
1x Cavalry or additional FM
1x General

Double this for a full consular army.

How would you set up a fullstack Polybian legion? To my understanding...

4x Velites
4x Hastati
4x Principes
2x Triarii
2x Equites Romani
1x General

Now there are three spaces left. Additional missile troops? Cavalry?

Also I'd like to know if the Romans used Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii in Polybian times, or would these units be a "Camillan only" selection? The reason is I want to give my Roman enemies a cheat-legion.

[QuintusSertorius]

Also I'd like to know if the Romans used Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii in Polybian times, or would these units be a "Camillan only" selection? The reason is I want to give my Roman enemies a cheat-legion.

They most certainly did use pedites extraordinarii in Polybian times. In the siege of Nova Carthago, it was they who forded the lake, I believe.

But one unit in a full stack is as many as there should be.

[konny]

How would you set up a fullstack Polybian legion? To my understanding...

4x Velites
4x Hastati
4x Principes
2x Triarii
2x Equites Romani
1x General

Now there are three spaces left. Additional missile troops? Cavalry?

Also I'd like to know if the Romans used Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii in Polybian times, or would these units be a "Camillan only" selection? The reason is I want to give my Roman enemies a cheat-legion.

Yes, a true Consular army should have a unit of Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii each:

2x Velites
2x Accensi (or better local missile)
4x Hastati
4x Principes
2x Triarii
1x Cavalry or additional FM (not more, otherwise you would be fielding to much Roman cavalry)
1x Equites Extraordinarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x General

In Camillan time you need the additional 2 slots for Triarii. In Polybian times I usually leave them out, that makes the Polybian Legions a bit cheaper and allows to field more of them.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Yes, a true Consular army should have a unit of Pedites and Equites Extraordinarii each:

2x Velites
2x Accensi (or better local missile)
4x Hastati
4x Principes
2x Triarii
1x Cavalry or additional FM (not more, otherwise you would be fielding to much Roman cavalry)
1x Equites Extraordinarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x General

In Camillan time you need the additional 2 slots for Triarii. In Polybian times I usually leave them out, that makes the Polybian Legions a bit cheaper and allows to field more of them.

Thank you for your answer konny, I always thought that the division of the light infantry in Rorarii, Leves and Accensi came to an end in Polybian times, and thus all light infantry were Velites.

[konny]

Thank you for your answer konny, I always thought that the division of the light infantry in Rorarii, Leves and Accensi came to an end in Polybian times, and thus all light infantry were Velites.

It isn't easy to say which types represented real fighters or how these had been armed. For example, "Accensi" might as well have been non-combatants such as messangers or camp workers. As far as I recall, Mommsen, Ranke or some other older author said Velites originally had not been armed but were equipped with weapons that became available during the campaign. That is certainly not true. The equipement or tactical role of Leves and Rorarii seems to be unclear as well. For example, Leves might have fought together Hastati; what would be a unit more like our Rorari.

After all it is also hard to belive that the Roman army of the Punic Wars fought completly without ranged weapons, save for javelins, when those played an important role in every other army and also, for example, in the later Imperial Legions every soldier was trained in using the sling. The most likely candidates for using slings or bows in the Republican army would have been members of the Rorarii/Accensi/Leves/Velites-class.

In gameplay terms you can (and should!) still recruite Accensi in Polybian times, regardless of the name of the unit.

[Maion Maroneios]

If you want my oppinion, I think a good army composition for Successor armies would be the following (at least they do a ery good job for me):

General x 1 (GR)
Heavy Cavalry x 2 (HC)
Medium Cavalry x 1 (MC)
Medium Phalangites x 4 (MP)
Elite Phalangites x 2 (EP)
Archers/Slingers x 2 (A/S)
Elite Infantry x 2 (EI)
Flanking Infantry x 3 (FI)
Reserve Troops x 3 (RT)

This is the composition I favour the most when playing as a Successor faction. I deploy my army as follows:

-------------(FI)-(MP)-(MP)-(EP)-(EP)-(MP)-(MP)-(EI-EI)---------------
-----------------------(RT)----(RT)---(RT)-----------------------------
--------(FI)--(HC)---------(A/S)-----------(A/S)---(MC)--(FI)----------
--------(HC)----------------------------------------------(G)----------

I find this quite an effectve composition and I guess it is historical to some degree, mostly due to the facts that I place my elite phalangites in the center of the battle line and my elite infantry on the right wing.

Maion

[Tristuskhan]

Dare I?
I suppose someone must:

General

2x Grivpanvar

4x armoured horse archers
8x Parthian or Dahae nobles

Fill with whaterver cheap anvil (if you must) and you have the best Pahlavan army!

[Che Roriniho]

For Makedonia: (based on Alexandros's and Phillipos's armies)

1 General
1 Hetairoi
6 Phalanxes (I use 4 Pezhatairoi and Angyrspidai, as this seems the most reasonable, and works best in terms of balance)
1 Toxotoi
1 Hippies Thessalonikoi
1 Akontistai
1 Spendonetai
2 Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
2 Peltasts
1 Hypaspists
2 Allied Infantry (Agarian Assault Infantry, for example)

I' unsure what to fill the extra gap with. Either Peltastae Makedonikoi, or another Hippies Thessalonikoi.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

It isn't easy to say which types represented real fighters or how these had been armed. For example, "Accensi" might as well have been non-combatants such as messangers or camp workers. As far as I recall, Mommsen, Ranke or some other older author said Velites originally had not been armed but were equipped with weapons that became available during the campaign. That is certainly not true. The equipement or tactical role of Leves and Rorarii seems to be unclear as well. For example, Leves might have fought together Hastati; what would be a unit more like our Rorari.

After all it is also hard to belive that the Roman army of the Punic Wars fought completly without ranged weapons, save for javelins, when those played an important role in every other army and also, for example, in the later Imperial Legions every soldier was trained in using the sling. The most likely candidates for using slings or bows in the Republican army would have been members of the Rorarii/Accensi/Leves/Velites-class.

In gameplay terms you can (and should!) still recruite Accensi in Polybian times, regardless of the name of the unit.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, konny.

My Makedonian army is as follows:

1x General
1x Hetairoi
1x Hippeis Thessalikoi
2x (Thraikoi) Prodromoi
1x Argyraspides
4x (Hysteroi) Pezhetairoi
1x Peltastai Makedonikoi
2x Thureophoroi
2x Kuarothoroi
2x Agrianikoi Pelekuphoroi / Thraikioi Rhompaiaphoroi / Cordinau Orca
1x Thraikioi Peltastai
2x Toxotai Kretikoi / Syriakoi / Thureopherontes

I don't think I have to many elites. I don't know whether it's historically correct, but well, historically correct would it be to lose three wars against the Romans.

Here I've made a diagram.
Black = heavy, grey = light(er), hollow = peltasts and archers, diagonally divided = cavalry, turquois = enemy hordes.
Triangle = phalanx / spear infantry, "swords" = attack infantry, stick = ranged infantry, flag = cavalry, sun = general.
H = Hetairoi, T = Thessalian Horse, P = Prodromoi.