Hayasdan Reforms - Help Needed!

**Rodrico Stak** · 08-24-2008, 23:13

On the topic of the reforms for Hayasdan, the FAQ says that for the Pan-Caucasas reform you need to upgrade Armavir to a Large Town, and build a market (also other things, but it is these two that I'm specifically asking about). However, Armavir starts as a large town, and already has a market. What's going on?

Edit: Nevermind, I just didn't notice that the reform happened.

**Sarkiss** · 08-24-2008, 23:39

im rather confused with the second, Persian reform.
its 200 BC i conquered Media, Adiabeana, Mesopotamia, Babylonia, Edessa, Syria, Kilikia, Palmyra, Damaskos... after building "Conquer comes..." no new Expansion Precursor gets created.

has anyone got so far?

**Hegix** · 08-24-2008, 23:50

You can only kick of the second reform by taking Persis and Elymais and building the "conquerer comes..." there. From there you can continue the reforms eastward and westward.

The pdf in the downloads/guides section lists in which order and when you can expand the reforms.

**Sarkiss** · 08-25-2008, 00:01

Originally Posted by Hegix

You can only kick of the second reform by taking Persis and Elymais and building the "conquerer comes..." there. From there you can continue the reforms eastward and westward.

The pdf in the downloads/guides section lists in which order and when you can expand the reforms.

aha, so im just being a moron again... i did read that pdf some time ago. even have it on my HD, damn it!

thanks
too bad that a persistent CTD killed yet another Armenian campaign for me.

**Quicci** · 08-25-2008, 19:46

Originally Posted by Rodrico Stak

On the topic of the reforms for Hayasdan, the FAQ says that for the Pan-Caucasas reform you need to upgrade Armavir to a Large Town, and build a market (also other things, but it is these two that I'm specifically asking about). However, Armavir starts as a large town, and already has a market. What's going on?

Edit: Nevermind, I just didn't notice that the reform happened.

I'm having a similar problem in my game: I don't know if the Pan-Caucasus Reform has run already...?
I've conquered all Caucasian provinces, and built the required buildings (roads, markets, large towns, town gurds...) everywhere, but I still can't figure out how to change the Government from III to I or II.
When I destroy the old Government building, there are only III, IV and Military Gov available...?
Should there be any message saying that the reform is done?
Is any trait awarded to the Faction Leader?

Is it a problem if I have taken other lands in the meantime?

Thanks for help

**Hegix** · 08-25-2008, 20:10

You only have to build the buildings in Armavir. The thing that usually takes the longest is getting 6000 inhabitants when you use the city for recruiting. IIRC the faction leader will get a trait, but the easiest way to check is to see if a Homeland marker has been added to the end of the building list (it will not replace the previous marker). I also think i rember that you have to build Gov I in Armavir before the markers in the other cities will change, but I'm not sure.

**Quicci** · 08-25-2008, 21:23

Thanks a lot, the Homeland Token is there, and I can build all governments in Hayasdan now! I should start wearing glasses again

I haven't checked the building list for Armavir, and as the Homeland was "added", and it didn't "replace" the Alliances token, I thought I might have done something wrong...?!!
Now I have played ca 50 seasons with a harsh Home Rule for Caucasian Unification

Anyway, Caucasian units are great: basic Archers, Skirmishers and Spearmen outclass the Greek troops, and with a little help from the Royal Cavalry they have eliminated Sauromatae, and are kicking the Saka off the map :P

**Matinius Brutus** · 08-26-2008, 09:20

Wait! You went North? Why? The provinces up there are useless in terms of money! Take the riches of the AS! As I found myself even a small but capable army for the Hay is extremely expensive! And all I have is 10 units of Kinsmen Cavalry, and 6 of Armored HAs, and of course basic units for garrison use and a few mercenary units also for garrison use. And I have gone east to Persis and Susa, own all of Asia Minor, without Amaseia, Nikaia, Pergamon, Ankyra and Sinope; Palestine and Phoenicia, Babylonia and Armenia itself! And I still cannot get an income past 3000 per turn!

**artavazd** · 08-26-2008, 09:21

Originally Posted by Quicci

Thanks a lot, the Homeland Token is there, and I can build all governments in Hayasdan now! I should start wearing glasses again

I haven't checked the building list for Armavir, and as the Homeland was "added", and it didn't "replace" the Alliances token, I thought I might have done something wrong...?!!
Now I have played ca 50 seasons with a harsh Home Rule for Caucasian Unification

Anyway, Caucasian units are great: basic Archers, Skirmishers and Spearmen outclass the Greek troops, and with a little help from the Royal Cavalry they have eliminated Sauromatae, and are kicking the Saka off the map :P

So you decided to go east into the steppes? That is an intresting expansion. How do you deal with the poor economy of the steppes and how do you manage your armies with that sort of an economy?

**Hegix** · 08-26-2008, 10:47

I'm kinda curious as well as to how you contain the AS aggression while focusing on the north. I've never seen them respect an alliance or a ceasefire.

**d'Arthez** · 08-26-2008, 12:43

What I found is that if you take all the Eleutheroi lands that border AS in the Caucasus region, they suddenly become more apt to attack.

It is not hard to contain the AS. Use spies and watch towers in Hayasdan province, so you know when an army is on the move. Because the Caucasian cities are quite close together, you can often use the garrisons of multiple cities as a defence force against the Seleukids. The cost for the defence force is thus limited.

With the Hay economy, I'd suggest laying down, and improving the Hay economy first. Ports, ports, and mines. That is why Trapezous and Sinope can be attractive targets. Kabalaka is poor, but you still make a bit of money, once you have a coastal clearing in place. Mtskheta gives you trade income, while acting as a cover for Kotais + Armavir. Basically you are getting paid to have a part of your garrison stationed elsewhere. More or less free money.

I found that more extensive use of infantry shaves of a large portion of the bills. Caucasian Archers, Caucasian spearman are quite good at their jobs. CS can pin down virtually anything, long enough to get some FMs / Kinsmen in there for the charge and rout, but they need the cavalry / infantry support else they will be chewed out. CA have a good range, and a decent missile attack value, which at the cost is a steal.

Once the Caucasus is united, go south and take Arbela, Seleukeia, and Babylon with one army, and send the other army from Phraaspa --> Ekbatana --> Susa. Ekbatana is a rich city.

You need a bit of luck in Hay games. The AS needs to be distracted by other conflicts, you need a bit of luck, that not all your family members turn out to be lazy, disloyal bums, etc.. And heaven forbid that the AS and Ptollies sign an alliance the turn after you started hostilities with the AS ...