Question for the Keltoi experts.

**blitzkrieg80** · 08-28-2008, 05:27

Originally Posted by Elmetiacos

There's the Gaulish Veneti, sometimes spelled as Venetii, who were Celts and the Polish Veneti who were also probably Celts.

This is quite speculative. Based on what evidence? Being of the Centum family of Indo-European?

Moros and Burn_again hit closer to the truth.

**cmacq** · 08-29-2008, 03:49

Originally Posted by blitzkrieg80

This is quite speculative. Based on what evidence? Being of the Centum family of Indo-European?

Moros and Burn_again hit closer to the truth.

I must support blitz here. I don't even think there is any evidence that the Polish Veneti were Celtic in language or custom. Actually, the archaeology indicates they were without doubt not Celt. I have a feeling that they (Italian, Gallic, and Polish Veneti) were similar to the Liguri; largely a non-IE general population, however in contrast each with a very thine IE aristocracy.

CmacQ

**Moros** · 08-29-2008, 10:04

Originally Posted by cmacq

largely a non-IE general population, however in contrast each with a very thine IE aristocracy.

Well I think the Celtic/Gallic veneti were pretty much all celtic, I assume. The Italic Veneti talked IE, and by our timeframe I think they all pretty much shared culture in lower and higher society. This might be diffeent when you go to earlier times, closer to the IE migrations. But I think by now the cultures that existed, were pretty much homogenous within. However by 272 BC I imagine the IE and non-IE had become new cultures through etnogenisis. At a lot of places this resulted in the use of IE languages. (Latin, venetic, celtic,...) at others the culture kept speaking older languages (Reatic, Ligurian, bartixian

. Of course it is also possible that some IE or non IE, didn't really change culture/language and kept theirs, but were slowly influenced by what was happening round them, I imagine.

Not sure about the polish veneti, as I don't know about them. And at certain places in germany, I expect a different aristocracy would be possible. But I just don't know.

**The Persian Cataphract** · 08-29-2008, 11:08

Originally Posted by blitzkrieg80

This is quite speculative. Based on what evidence? Being of the Centum family of Indo-European?

Moros and Burn_again hit closer to the truth.

Additionally if I recall the classics correctly, the Venedae were apparently under Sarmatian suzerainty. I would much rather guess that the Venedae were more related to the later Germanic "migration"-tribes such as the Gepids and the Vandals.

**cmacq** · 08-29-2008, 14:03

Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Additionally if I recall the classics correctly, the Venedae were apparently under Sarmatian suzerainty. I would much rather guess that the Venedae were more related to the later Germanic "migration"-tribes such as the Gepids and the Vandals.

Good point, however, this quickly becomes yet another very great can of worms. The literary and archaeological aspects of this subject are very complex, yet in short, the historic Vandal and Veneti were discrete. Nonetheless over time, the (later) former subsumed some of the attributes, as well as some of the territory of the (earlier) latter. I hope that makes some sense. Sorry I’ve no time now, to be more detailed.

CmacQ