Surprisingly bad units

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

No, I've got slingers and archers to annihilate enemy slingers with. That's the kind of target my long-rangers are tasked with. Indeed if I see slingers, they get the focus of my slingers like nothing else, since all other enemy ranged troops are relatively harmless for my main line.

Yes I've got archers to annihilate enemy slingers with in the first place. But not in that particular army with that I was marching against Kyrene, the odd left Ptolemaioi settlement, whereas the rest of the army (with all my archers) had to do more serious stuff. And indeed Thessalians are an awesome cavalry force.

Can Epeiros recruit Thessalikoi?

[QuintusSertorius]

Yes I've got archers to annihilate enemy slingers with in the first place. But not in that particular army with that I was marching against Kyrene, the odd left Ptolemaioi settlement, whereas the rest of the army (with all my archers) had to do more serious stuff. And indeed Thessalians are an awesome cavalry force.

Can Epeiros recruit Thessalikoi?

No idea, I'm outside of homeland provinces anyway, so they're mercenary-only.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I had an interesting battle tonight. My cavalry forces were 110 Hetairoi, including bodyguards, 95 Thessalians and 85 Thraikioi Prodromoi. The enemy's cavalry were 65 Hetairoi bodyguards, 100 Hippeis Hellenikoi and 100 ordinary Prodromoi. I took the offensive and charged the enemy Prodromoi with my Thracians. I thought it would be an easy win, since my Thracians are 2 points better statwise in both attack and defense. Both forces were not tired. But the enemy slaughtered all my Thraikioi! I was really shocked, I only managed to kill approx. 40 of them.

In the meantime my Thessalians had attacked their Hippeis. Taking about 5 losses, they killed all the Hippeis (with help of some Hetairoi). They were exhausted, but I let them hurry and line up again to help out the Thraikians. But it was too late. The enemy Prodromoi had already routed my Thraikians and chased them down. I told my Thessalians to attack them nevertheless, and guess... They completely annihilated the foe, taking another 2 losses only. Without help of some Hetairoi. Yeah, these are Thessalians.

Will provide screenshots if you don't believe it.

[teh1337tim]

thessalians are bad ass if used properly
i repeat they are NOT shock calvalry that will row up the dam battleline!!
leave hetairo and true heavy calv for that
hehe ur thraikens got ahnialateD? hahaha too bad :P always got more calv xD

[QuintusSertorius]

thessalians are bad ass if used properly
i repeat they are NOT shock calvalry that will row up the dam battleline!!
leave hetairo and true heavy calv for that
hehe ur thraikens got ahnialateD? hahaha too bad :P always got more calv xD

If they're not shock cavalry, what's the point in them? That's what heavy cavalry is for.

Even moreso when medium cavalry like Thrakian Prodromoi (or even lights like Curepos) can perform admirably in that very role.

[Celtic_Punk]

Quintus, I am in TOTAL agreement with you. My Spartan campaign was drumming along well, I had united the Ionia, Lesbos, Crete, Chalkis, and the pelopenese. Moving up to delphi, i found i was without cavalry and this was a dire problem, as i needed a mobile force to combat the threat of flanking makedonian cavalry. I read thessalians were bitchin' in most of my history books on Greek warfare. This simply was not the case. By the second charge they would be either winded or tired. what bloody use is that to me? I pressed on without changing my army composition and in a crucial battle south of pella with the majority of Greek and Makedonian forces taking part they really let me down.

Makedonia had 2 fullstacks each with a FM, I had one composed of 1FM(non spartan bodyguards) 1 wing of Thessalonians, 3 spartans, 4 classic hoplites and a unit of creten archers.

I destroyed the first stack with negligible casualties, I put a unit of spartans in my centre and they tore a hole through their phalanx and caused total chaos up their line. My thessalians charged the gap got through with 4 casualties and i brought them round and smashed their right (my left) rear flank. i rinsed repeated on the left flank. they were very tired by this point, but their work had been already done and the entire army was put into flight. each hoplite unit took only a handful of casualties and only the centre spartans took 2 casualties. Had the spartans not caused such hell the engagement would have taken a larger toll and those thessalians would have had to fight much longer.

I formed up and began marching towards the 2nd army, we met halfway between the first engagement and the edge of the map. I attmepted the same tactic as they had the same army pretty much except they had shittier phalanx troops. the cretans finished up their ammo and did a littlebit of damage. lines met up, and we were winning, but this time no punch through the centre. I decided to flank since his FM was trying to push through to the left of the centre spartans. the thessalians numbering 92 men (whom rested back to fresh) moved round the right and smashed into their left (our right) rear flank and were decimated. the levy phalangites were tired and were wavering, numbering less than 200 men. I pulled them out after i saw the first 10 go down, in their retreat they lost another 15 or so. Makedonia's FM withdrew from the line and as i tried to save my cavalry they caught up with them because they were so freakin tired and were butchered without killing a single man. the FM then pulled a flanking move and hammered my right flank, which consequentially collapsed. the spartans (this battle actually restored my faith in them) in the centre held as they got surrounded, and i moved the left flank ones and my FM to the right side and held the makeonians in a V shape with the centre spartans on the point. the rest of the classical hoplites broke and my FM and spartans were surrounded. my FM was was killed and the rest fought on to the death.

thessalian cavalry can kiss my shiney gaelic ass.

i also hearby retract what i said a few weeks back about Spartan Hoplites.

EDIT: Quintus what is the best Greek/Makedonian medium cavalry force that I can recruit. as i stated earlier i need someone who can kill makedonian cavalry, or at least hold their own.

[QuintusSertorius]

EDIT: Quintus what is the best Greek/Makedonian medium cavalry force that I can recruit. as i stated earlier i need someone who can kill makedonian cavalry, or at least hold their own.

Truth be told, the late Makedonian FMs are tanks. You're best avoiding putting any horse near them at all, and focusing on killing them with spearmen.

If you must get in close, the only thing you can do is get some cavalry who are good with their swords, because the AI is almost always too stupid to switch from the primary lance. That means you'll kill them much faster. I've watched the much weaker Epirote Mossolon Agema bodyguard butcher a larger group of Makedonian Hetairoi bodyguard just because I was using swords and they were still using lances. However I don't think I've faced their heavier, reformed ones.

As to what cavalry is there, not a lot to be honest. Thrakian Prodromoi are around, but they're not as great in melee. You could always just swamp them with Illyrian Hippeis - put two units of them on one FM.

Can you recruit Lonchophoroi? They're medium-heavies and have AP swords. Failing that, get a level 5 regional barracks and recruit Hellenistic Mercenary Generals. They're pretty tough, and decent stamina.

[Celtic_Punk]

hmmm would recruiting merc generals be historically accurate?


new epic fail unit- Casse chariots and their first skirmisher cavalry. totally useless at everything. Chariots have their uses but more times than not, they feck everything up. both are hellishly expensive!