Is the Human Race more prone to Altruism or Egoism

[ICantSpellDawg]

72 virgins, hall of fame, maybe unconciously the survival of the species. Some argue that altruism is actually an advanced sort of egoism, qui pro quo, cash the cheque later. That is not to say that there aren't exceptional individuals, that brittish soldier that throwed himselve on a grenade to save his buddies. But maybe not even him because he cared so deeply about his buddies, even that could be considered egoistic in a twisted sort of way.

Egoism refers to self. If you help others in order to ingratiate yourself - that is advanced egoism. If you kill yourself to save others or benefit in no way - that is altruism. There is a clear distinction.

[Fragony]

Egoism refers to self. If you help others in order to ingratiate yourself - that is advanced egoism. If you kill yourself to save others or benefit in no way - that is altruism. There is a clear distinction.

If it is you that cares about others then killing yourself can be a selfish act. Sounds cynical but it really isn't because most don't realise why they are doing it. I donate a lot of money to charity but I really couldn't care less about hunger in africa or hangings in Iran, but I give money anyway, makes me feel good. In the end I do it for myselve.

Ok I am pretty cynical.

[ICantSpellDawg]

If it is you that cares about others then killing yourself can be a selfish act.

Nonsense. Making a conscious decision to die for the sake of someone else is not selfish - that is nonsense.

[Fragony]

Nonsense. Making a conscious decision to die for the sake of someone else is not selfish - that is nonsense.

What would be a completily unselfish act? If you die because you want others to live it is still something you do because you want something.

[ICantSpellDawg]

What would be a completily unselfish act? If you die because you want others to live it is still something you do because you want something.

But you don't live to benefit from their survival. It is a cynics attempt to minimize selflessness. I understand the attempt to call socially conscious opportunism by what it is, but it is a logical stretch to debase real altruism.

[Fragony]

But you don't live to benefit from their survival. It is a cynics attempt to minimize selflessness. I understand the attempt to call socially conscious opportunism by what it is, but it is a logical stretch to debase real altruism.

Well I don't actually believe what I said there about the brit throwing himselve on a grenade, just debating, me and Poor Bloody Infantry seem to be the only one who believe we are more prone to altruism then egoism, but I do believe that it is a survival strategy. There are many good people, but real altruism would require absolute selfleshness and like all absolute things I don't think it exists.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Well I don't actually believe what I said there about the brit throwing himselve on a grenade, just debating, me and Poor Bloody Infantry seem to be the only one who believe we are more prone to altruism then egoism, but I do believe that it is a survival strategy. There are many good people, but real altruism would require absolute selfleshness and like all absolute things I don't think it exists.

Your argument is confused. You can't do something altruistic for a recognized reward. Altruism is something different entirely. Egoism isn't necessarily a bad thing at all - it can cause someone to do tremendous good for everyone involved with little risk. Altruism is a different thing though; it is necessary when not everyone can benefit and someone needs to act out of self sacrifice for the greater good for no reward. Sometimes this results in the death of the actor, but it can still exist if the actor survives the ordeal.

My point is that Altruism and Egoism are absolutely distinct rather than different grades of the same impulse.