The Islam Thread...

**Paradox** · 09-01-2008, 02:54

I'm curious about where you guys get this info about Muslims cutting off throats of non-believers. Well at least not in prophet Muhammad's time, his influence was too strong for that to happen in his lifetime.

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-01-2008, 03:53

Originally Posted by Fahad I

I'm curious about where you guys get this info about Muslims cutting off throats of non-believers. Well at least not in prophet Muhammad's time, his influence was too strong for that to happen in his lifetime.

the guy's throat didnt get cut. the point is that he converted under duress. he was converted by FORCE.

anyone who didnt want to accept Jesus' message was able to make that choice for themself, and walk away.

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-01-2008, 04:10

Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-01-2008, 04:11

Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Violence towards "people of the book"

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-01-2008, 04:14

From the Hadiths:

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-01-2008, 04:38

Like I said, The Bible is violent also...but there is one big difference. For Example:

Deuteronomy 20:10-17 -"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes"

Except for the part about sparing women and children, this sounds similar to a verse from the Qur'an:

And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, and afterward they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation. (Sura 17:16)

The Biblical passage is not an open-ended command, but instead, a story of history bound within the text.
This was a specific command, given at a specific time to the tribe of Israel concerning a discrete target. This is why Christians and Jews do not treat these verses as present-day imperatives.

Contrast this with the actual words of Muhammad:

[Allah's Apostle said] "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (Bukhari 52:256)

Not only are these Muhammad�s own words, but there are many Muslims at this very moment who are trying to kill Jews in Israel. Their religious leaders quote this passage to inspire them.

Also, i will repost a hadith so it is clear, that while the bible verse says to spare pagan women and children, Islam actualy does the opposite.

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

**Banquo's Ghost** · 09-01-2008, 07:15

Unsurprisingly, the thread is veering close to trolling for provocative effect. Let's see if we can have a discussion on Islam without that actually happening. Please be aware that people's personal faiths deserve respect as well as examination.

AlexanderSextus, it is usually considered good form in the Backroom to post the link to your sources rather than cut and paste opinions which you then present as your own. Either that or spend the time editing the original material to replicate the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors that tend to show up in your own words.

Thank you kindly.

**Paradox** · 09-01-2008, 11:22

Same with Islam, people had the freedom of choosing their beliefs and usually welcomed Muslims as liberators during the wars against Sassanid Persia and the Byzantines. Nobody's throat was cut off, they were just tempted to convert by the preachers and population, it was the influence of Islam around the penninsula.