The Lunar Whale: A Final Fantasy IV Mafia [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

What does that mean?

Wrath of Chaotix'ed.

WOG'ed. Or, perhaps for no reason, Wrath of Caius.

That was an inspiring speech Elite Ferret...

Okay in my defence:

-I voted Tiberius because I can't abstain, I voted for him because he obviously weren't getting lynched, so my vote wouldn't of made a difference anyway.

Sounds fair.

-I have made no personal contact with Elite Ferret, he is defending me because this isn't my normal pattern as mafia. He partnered me in a previous game which ended in mafia victory, both of us did relatively well and I wasn't as sloppy as in this game. I was also the mafia in Fenring's Soviet Mafia and got to the end without exposing myself too much. I'll make this clear: Elite Ferret and me had no contact at all about this game

That one I don't buy. For reason stated below.

-If I were the mafia then I'd probably get the worst mafia award or something, because this definitely isn't what a mafia is suppose to do, get notiched by everyone else and getting him as much attention as possible. In all my previoius games I kept a low profile or at least acted normal. This really isn't how I'd play if I was the mafia.

Maybe so, but it isn't how you should play as town either. And if you've been mafia several times, you might try different strategies, so you can defend yourself by saying "I was mafia before and didn't act this way."

You're vouching for your own character, which is the same as giving your personal guarantee you're innocent in a game of lies. So I can't buy this argument.

I already made my reveal. If the town don't believe they can test it out, get the vigilante to murder me or set the detective to investigate me. I confessed my role to the whole crew and now you all want to lynch me without giving me a trial. Tryout my ability first then lynch me if you still think I'm the mafia.

This sounds more reasonable.

-The bit about being a noble townie and not afraid of being lynched. I thought the whole point of the game was to survive till the end, whether you're townie or not. I don't see the point of myself just saying 'go ahead and lynch me because I'm just a simple townie and wouldn't make a difference' would help you people to believe me.

Wrong. The point of the game for Town is to lynch the saboteur. It is not a victory condition if you survive the game unless you're scum. Are you scum, QJC?

-I don't have any particular suspect because it's only the first day of the game, the only person attracted enough attention on themselves was me (with the bad reveal) and Caius (being the last one to board the vessel). With private reveal banned I don't think anybody else have any idea who the mafia is either.

Reasonable. I'd agree with that.

People have accused me of lying about my reveal, so I urge you to spare me of this day and let the detective and the vigilante on me, the detective will find me innocent or unclear, and the vigilante will blast off an extra life off me but that shouldn't do much harm. Let me live through today and I'll prove my innocence.

Fair enough, BUT! We should NOT use both the detective and the vigilante on you at the same time.

I PUBLICLY CALL FOR A STAY OF EXECUTION ON QUINTUS, AND WHOMEVER IS THE VIGILANTE NOT TO KILL QUINTUS. I PUBLICLY CALL FOR THE INVESTIGATOR TO CHECK QJC THIS TURN.

Vote: Caius

Let's tie up the late joinee loose end. And QJC will be revealed innocent or guilty next turn.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Running tally:

Caius, 4 votes (FH) (aries) (ATPG) (QJC)
Quintus.JC, 3 votes (Shlin) (WH) (Glyphz)
AskThePizzaGuy, 1 vote (Elite Ferret)
glyphz, 1 vote (El Diablo)

I repeat my call for Caius' head unless he comes up with a brilliant reason why he's not suspicious for joining late.

[shlin28]

Caius lives in Argentina... timezone-wise he cannot defend himself at the moment (well, some people at that timezone can be online right now, but obvious not everyone spends their time on the .org in the morning)

[glyphz]

Well now...
I'd guess, the 'real' Quintus.JC has come out.
Can't say, however, if everything you said is the truth.

I'd probably be more open to unvote you now (compared to say, before I went to bed),
and instead vote for someone else, say,
i.e. someone who hasn't posted yet, since signing up.
(I don't feel like voting against Caius just yet, though ...on the matter that if there's only 1 mafia. If 2, I would suspect him).
My only condition is that changing my vote counts. I don't want to change my vote, from Quintus to Person A, if it ends up not lynching Person A.

edit: can someone post what exact time is the deadline? (GMT might be nice) as it would be a hassle if I can't change my vote on time

[Askthepizzaguy]

I live in florida, USA. Argentina is in the same time zone, I think. I'm up at 11 am for this game... usually I sleep in on days off.

But yeah if Caius is innocent we won't know until tomorrow, because he isn't online it seems.


Town, watch for late vote changes... the one or two sabateurs could band together and affect the lynch outcome if we targeted one of the guilty parties.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yesterday: 11:41 (according to the org clock)
Now: 10:28 (the org clock)


We have an hour and ten minutes, approx

[Quintus.JC]

Fair enough, BUT! We should NOT use both the detective and the vigilante on you at the same time.

I PUBLICLY CALL FOR A STAY OF EXECUTION ON QUINTUS, AND WHOMEVER IS THE VIGILANTE NOT TO KILL QUINTUS. I PUBLICLY CALL FOR THE INVESTIGATOR TO CHECK QJC THIS TURN.

I don't think setting the investigator on me is a good idea, for the following reasons:

First let me make this clear that I only saying this for the town's sake and not because I'm afraid of being found out or anything.

-Firstly I'm not sure if we even have an investigator

There will be 1, or possibly 2 saboteurs, 1 vigilante, and the rest are 'town'.
Private reveals are not allowed.
Abstaining from vote is not allowed.
Quoting pms, from me or anyone else, is not allowed.
The dead can not post.
Each phase will last 24 hours, if I am on time.
The game will start with a day phase.

-Secondly there will be a fair chance of him finding me to be 'unclear', and I doubt the town will take anything short of innocent to think me as innocent.

-Finally, and most importantly. If we do have an investigator then I'm positive there is only one investigator. Since private reveal isn't allowed then the only way he could pronouce my innocence is by saying: "Hello everyone, I'm ***** the detective, I've investigated QJC and found him innocent. Ta". And as we can expect, we'll find the detective dead the very next day. There is no way the detective can reveal whether I'm innocent or not without exposing himself, and therefore putting himself in the hands of the mafia, it isn't worth the investigator's life just to prove whether I'm innocent. So I think the best way to prove me not lying is to send the vigilante on me, the advantages of that are:

-It's still Night 1, the chance of killing the mafia is very, very low. The vigilante could only have a blind guess and the chances are that he'll end up killing an innocent townie because there are more townies than scums. So the vigilante might as well deal with me on Night 1, so that no innocent townie is put in danger.

-Vigilante will have a sure result, unlike investigators they won't have the chances of 'unclear' or as such. They will succed in attempting to kill me, they will NOT fail.

-The vigilante will be able to kill me without exposing himself, unlike the detective. All we need to see is Chaotix's right up to know what happend, but the detective have to publicly reveal himself, putting his live in danger.

-After surviving his attacks I will be left with 2 lifes, I think everyone should know that the host would not give the mafia an extra life because he would not need it, never mind 3 lives. So that would prove my innocence. None the less, if the town is still not statisified then they can set the vigilante on me two more times, though I doubt that would do much good for the town.

So I advise the investigator to drop his investigation and let the vigilante stretch his muscles before the real work needs to be done.

[Quintus.JC]

Well now...
I'd guess, the 'real' Quintus.JC has come out.

Real?

[shlin28]

Whilst I agree with your points that the detective will be very vulerable, it seems to me that you are scared of the detective who will find you guilty whilst wanting to get attacked by the vig who you know will fail to kill you (ie. cos you are mafia and is invincible and stuff)

My vote stands

[glyphz]

Real?

Meaning, I find your recent posts very different from those that only read.... "Please don't lynch me! Please! I'm allergic to votes"

edit: Anyway, at the moment, you're not in the lead. That should be a sort of relief. Be thankful that many did not jump on you and even have someone personally try to defend you.

[Quintus.JC]

Whilst I agree with your points that the detective will be very vulerable, it seems to me that you are scared of the detective who will find you guilty whilst wanting to get attacked by the vig who you know will fail to kill you (ie. cos you are mafia and is invincible and stuff)

My vote stands

The mafia cannot be invicible, there is no point of giving the mafia 3 extra lifes.

Still, if the detective want a challenge then go ahead. I have nothing to hide.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't think setting the investigator on me is a good idea, for the following reasons:

First let me make this clear that I only saying this for the town's sake and not because I'm afraid of being found ouf or anything.

-Firstly I'm not sure if we even have an investigator

Oh... jeez.... GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!!!

-Secondly there will be a fair chance of him finding me to be 'unclear', and I doubt the town will take anything short of innocent to think me as innocent.

How would you know that unless you know there is an investigator?

-Finally, and most importantly. If we do have an investigator then I'm positive there is only one investigator. Since private reveal isn't allowed then the only way he could pronouce my innocence is by saying: "Hello everyone, I'm ***** the detective, I've investigated QJC and found him innocent. Ta". And as we can expect, we'll find the detective dead the very next day. There is no way the detective can reveal whether I'm innocent or not without exposing himself, and therefore putting himself in the hands of the mafia, it isn't worth the investigator's life just to prove whether I'm innocent. So I think the best way to prove me not lying is to send the vigilante on me, the advantages of that are:

Ummm..... How about the investigator just remains silent, then?

SO guilty.

-It's still Night 1, the chance of killing the mafia is very, very low. The vigilante could only have a blind guess and the chances are that he'll end up killing an innocent townie because there are more townies than scums. So the vigilante might as well deal with me on Night 1, so that no innocent townie is put in danger.

You just said that would be a waste of time. It makes no sense to do what you propose.

-Vigilante will have a sure result, unlike investigators they won't have the chances of 'unclear' or as such. They will succed in attempting to kill me, they will NOT fail.

What if you're right, and the vigilante can't kill you, but you can only be lynched? That still doesn't prove your innocence.

-The vigilante will be able to kill me without exposing himself, unlike the detective. All we need to see is Chaotix's right up to know what happend, but the detective have to publicly reveal himself, putting his live in danger.

I refer you to your own warning that it can't work. And I already showed you that the detective doesnt have to DO anything if youre innocent.

-After surviving his attacks I will be left with 2 lifes, I think everyone should know that the host would not give the mafia an extra life because he would not need it, never mind 3 lives. So that would prove my innocence. None the less, if the town is still not statisified then they can set the vigilante on me two more times, though I doubt that would do much good for the town.

That does NOT make any sense. You can suggest the mafia wouldnt need extra lives, but I contend that they are a great candidate for such a trait. ESPECIALLY IF THEY REVEAL IT ON TURN ONE.

So I advise the investigator to drop his investigation and let the vigilante stretch his muscles before the real work needs to be done.

Ignore him! This defense does not have the necessary underlying logic. He's not on the chopping block anyway, Caius is, and the investigation will see him innocent or guilty.

From what he's saying, I think he's guilty. We shall soon find out.

[Quintus.JC]

Then its settled. The investigator will investigated me on Night 1. If I am innocent then the investigator will remain silent. If I am actually guilty then he will hurry his result and making it public, ending my miserable existence for good.

Hear that Mr. Investigator, it's up to you to prove my innocents, good luck.

[Quintus.JC]

Meaning, I find your recent posts very different from those that only read.... "Please don't lynch me! Please! I'm allergic to votes"

Ah, so its reasons you want, that I can give, plus plenty more.

So everyone is happy with the agreement then?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Askthepizzaguy

add_trait: aggressive prosecutor

[Quintus.JC]

Quintus JC.

Add trait:
Feels Unappreciated
Dwells on a belief that he is intentionally being treated poorly by his fellow townies.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, no... out of respect for your intellect and cunning, and the fact that the roles are random, and due to perhaps a minor misstatement, I personally suspect you're guilty and fighting vigorously for your life. It's not an insult or a lack of respect. it's a compliment. Town fears you.

Out of respect for you, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by asking town to stay the execution and asking the vigilante to lay off, while the investigator proves your innocence. We're using an investigation because we believe you.

If he does, then mafia can't kill you anyway. We win. And the investigator can stay alive, too! it's a win-win. Plus we get rid of Caius, the only other suspect with any reasoning behind it.

____________

I just realized I am acting as though town does my bidding. I'm not trying to... please accept my apologies. Nobody died and left me mayor. But someone needs to lead the prosecution side.

[glyphz]

Ah, so its reasons you want, that I can give, plus plenty more.

So everyone is happy with the agreement then?

everyone? agreement? happy?!

i'm not sure about an 'agreement' being made, or if one has been agreed upon (esp. the 'vigilante' or the supposed 'detective')
'everyone' only refers to us active 'posting' at the moment, and those (while active) who decided to not join in this discussion.
if you wanted to make things entertaining, then you probably have. For spectators that is. To the town... so far, only a large head-ache. (<-- a)does not mean, i hold any bad feelings against you. this is supposed to be a game. b) i'm hoping, that perhaps your actions, N1, will end up helping the town in the long run c)Plus, i'm anxious to see the end of this round and get back to sleep)

[Thermal]

yes you make a good leader, but it has to be emphasised that everyone is still a suspect at this stage, even you atpg, your quite a cunning fellow when need be i hear...

[Quintus.JC]

No, no... out of respect for your intellect and cunning, and the fact that the roles are random, and due to perhaps a minor misstatement, I personally suspect you're guilty and fighting vigorously for your life. It's not an insult or a lack of respect. it's a compliment. Town fears you.

Why I am very flattered, thanks for that. :sarcastic smile:

Out of respect for you, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by asking town to stay the execution and asking the vigilante to lay off, while the investigator proves your innocence. We're using an investigation because we believe you.

That deserves a big, geniue thank you.

If he does, then mafia can't kill you anyway. We win. And the investigator can stay alive, too! it's a win-win. Plus we get rid of Caius, the only other suspect with any reasoning behind it.

I totally agree with you there, sounds like a plan.

if you wanted to make things entertaining, then you probably have. For spectators that is. To the town... so far, only a large head-ache.

Better than having a half-dead game. Besides it's not so bad, without my reveal the town would still be as headless as ever. And would of probably lynched some quiet, innocent fellow. With my reveal the town would know for sure that I am one of you by next round. That's one person off the list at least.

[Askthepizzaguy]

yes you make a good leader, but it has to be emphasised that everyone is still a suspect at this stage, even you atpg, your quite a cunning fellow when need be i hear...

Yes, yes, I understand that standing up and speaking out will inevitably get my lynched or murdered. BUT! Town will do better if I still attempt to find the saboteur. Death comes to most townies... only the brave or those benefiting from pure, dumb luck will catch the saboteur.

It would be better if my reputation didn't precede me. But I have to remind everyone I don't get to choose my role. The scummiest M2TW player has to be townie most of the time.

[glyphz]

*sigh*
If no new arguments is presented (and no vote changing happens)... Let the votes stand, and have Caius lynched then.

edit: The tally is the same as it was when it was last posted

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am keeping an eye on the scummy last minute vote changers, and lurker vote bandwagonners.

I would like any other active townies to please remain active so we can all lynch the person who tries to sneak in a "dont kill me, Chaotix" anti-WOG vote.

[Quintus.JC]

Yes, yes, I understand that standing up and speaking out will inevitably get my lynched or murdered. BUT! Town will do better if I still attempt to find the saboteur. Death comes to most townies... only the brave or those benefiting from pure, dumb luck will catch the saboteur.

I've spoken my touge dry and look at whats happening to me, you ungratefuly bunch.

That being said I definitely isn't scared of being murdered since I'm pratically invincible, and I have an idea to propose to the town:

During the daytime we will vote for a lynch, but we can also vote for whom the town wants to be investigated. Like this:

Investigation: Quintus. JC

At the end of the day the person with the most votes will be investigated by the detective (we'll need his co-operation). When the next days comes, if the person being investigated is the innocent then the detective will be silent and continue to be anonymous, and if he does then we will know that the person is innocent and we could cross him off our suspcion list. And if the person investigated is guilty then the detective will go public and we'll get rid of the scum, how about that?

[Thermal]

Yes, yes, I understand that standing up and speaking out will inevitably get my lynched or murdered. BUT! Town will do better if I still attempt to find the saboteur. Death comes to most townies... only the brave or those benefiting from pure, dumb luck will catch the saboteur.

It would be better if my reputation didn't precede me. But I have to remind everyone I don't get to choose my role. The scummiest M2TW player has to be townie most of the time.

your right...
anyway we have 15 minutes and it seems choatix may not make it intime, so we could be waiting a while...the murderer is among us but have no hard evidence to find them, even after this debate has concluded, who can really be suspected next? the descision will get harder and harder with undoubtedly townies being lynched in the process, perhaps we should think twice about who we lynch, caius' lack of contact is mysterious as was his late enterence, but with the little we no, he could have one of the most powerful abilities here, and there really is no way of knowing who is next, as when night falls, all of our votes and theorys could dissolve at our deaths, im still most suspicous of caius but im unsure of the consequences of lynching him...

[Thermal]

I've spoken my touge dry and look at whats happening to me, you ungratefuly bunch.

That being said I definitely isn't scared of being murdered since I'm pratically invincible, and I have an idea to propose to the town:

During the daytime we will vote for a lynch, but we can also vote for whom the town wants to be investigated. Like this:

Investigation: Quintus. JC

At the end of the day the person with the most votes will be investigated by the detective (we'll need his co-operation). When the next days comes, if the person being investigated is the innocent then the detective will be silent and continue to be anonymous, and if he does then we will know that the person is innocent and we could cross him off our suspcion list. And if the person investigated is guilty then the detective will go public and we'll get rid of the scum, how about that?

would that not stil leave room for turncoats?

[Askthepizzaguy]

We have two lurkers.

If they don't post AND they survive a WOG, then we MUST assume they are guilty.

[shlin28]

Surely they wont get WoGed by missing one turn? Most times its 3...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd then suspect single posters... less talking means less suspicious activity. The more people talk, the more they tell us about their scummy selves.

People who are interrogated are likely to make mistakes that show their guilt. Liars have to maintain their identity while being grilled like a chicken, and that's difficult. Inexperienced mafioso will likely crack under the pressure.

To avoid this, mafia tends to be quiet. So I suspect that more than anything. Even so, it's also possible that they are spooked by the idea of being a "too quiet" suspect, so they start talking and say something incriminating.

The more people talk, the better it is for town.

EDIT: Shlin, we likely have at most 3 or 4 nights. You can't not post more than once in this game and get away with it. Also, non-voting is specifically prohibited. They need to send in their votes/kills ahead of time or risk WOG.

[Chaotix]

Damn. I go to sleep after ATPG posts his big accusation and wake up now, and suddenly the thread has about a million more posts in it.

Anyway, I'm making the write-up now. Votes are closed.