The Islam Thread...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There are certainly more than enough christians who believe that the bible is written solely by the Holy Spirit and as such is the direct word of god, Philipvs...

It's an interpretive doctrine that came out of the reformation (Sola Scriptura "Through Scripture Alone" which was one five "Solas" and essentially a propaganda campaign against the Catholic church) it's not itself scripture. There are passages which refer to the direct word of God but they are reported in the Histories of the Old Testemant. As I said, the formation of the Bible is a matter of historical record at the

There are also christians that realize that it is NOT the direct word of god. Indirect word of god , Direct word of god .

Its weird. i remember reading a part of the bible where one of the apostles, (i think it was peter) said "what i am about to say is not from god" and some christians say that the passage after that quote comes directly from god.

BTW...I have read the whole bible before... just not in a while so i'm a little rusty. But i do remember that part.




Oh, and also, a lot of the time muslims say that "God cannot reproduce and have a son, so Jesus is not the 'son of god'."

The fact is, the idea that Jesus is the BIOLOGICAL "Son of God" does not sit well with most christians either. Son of God means that Jesus was the first thing that God created,(as the Archangel Michael) before the universe, before the earth, so therefore that makes him His "Son" in a figurative sense. (or at least that was what i was told by my uncle, who's a devout christian and really knows his stuff.)
Again, "Only Begotten Son" was a mistranslation. "only CREATED son" would have been much better. Would that make the idea of Jesus being the "son of god" more acceptable to muslims??? God creating jesus as his first angel would be well within the scope of Allah's power, no? (

No offense to your Uncle but I've come accross a fair few flavours of Christianity and that one's new to me. Certainly in traditional doctrine Michael is not Jesus and in any case Jesus was not created by God he IS God. Or rather, the Son of God is a part of the Triune Godhead which was manifest on Earth as the man Jesus. Jesus was both fully man and fully God. This was one of the issues which Constantine had the Bishops hammer out and so the story goes it took three whole days of theological arguement. In any case the first Angel was Lucifer, the Light Bringer.

We're getting derailed into Christian mysticism.

Fahed, question: Why can't Allah have a son?

[Tribesman]

Fahed, question: Why can't Allah have a son?

Because allah is wise , he believes in safe sex so you don't get the complications of children .

[Hax]

The fact is, the idea that Jesus is the BIOLOGICAL "Son of God" does not sit well with most christians either.

Yeah, but when did we ever find biology in religion? Science of any kind is not found in any of the Holy Books.

[Paradox]

Science of any kind is not found in any of the Holy Books.

Err, you sure about that, Hax?

[Sigurd]

One of the things I put a question mark with regarding Islam, If I can be as bold to do so, is the use of the Angel Gabriel as the messenger from Allah to the Prophet.

We have a being mentioned in Daniel (Old Testament) which makes him important in the Jewish religion. (around 500 BC)
Then the same angel appears to some people foretelling the birth of John the Baptist and Jesus.
Interestingly this angel names Jesus, the Son of God. (Around year 0)
Then this same being appears and gives unto the Prophet the message of Allah recorded in the Qur'an. (finished around 632 AD.)

Three religions having the same messenger. Something is up with this.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There are verses in the Qur'an that explain this, it's the shortest Surah so it isn't difficult to find.

I was rather hoping you'd give me a reference at least, I'd be more than happy to return the favour.

One of the things I put a question mark with regarding Islam, If I can be as bold to do so, is the use of the Angel Gabriel as the messenger from Allah to the Prophet.

We have a being mentioned in Daniel (Old Testament) which makes him important in the Jewish religion. (around 500 BC)
Then the same angel appears to some people foretelling the birth of John the Baptist and Jesus.
Interestingly this angel names Jesus, the Son of God. (Around year 0)
Then this same being appears and gives unto the Prophet the message of Allah recorded in the Qur'an. (finished around 632 AD.)

Three religions having the same messenger. Something is up with this.

Well, obviously the latter two religions are claiming continuity with Judaism. I fail to see the fishyness. Of course only a maximum of one of the two is telling the truth.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Didn't Mohammed claim that Gabriel nearly strangled him and claimed to be demon-possessed for months after the event? Some Christians claim this shows he was decieved by Satan, since Gabriel approached the Christian's in a peacefull manner.

Or maybe that is not true. I just recall reading it in the Christian forums I browse a bit, it could well be very biased or completely untrue, I have no idea to be honest.

[Jolt]

Three religions having the same messenger. Something is up with this.

That's because those religions (And many others before them) based on the same story (Or some details of the same story) to found those religions. I'll give you a very simple hint.

Horus (As you must logically think, Horus was created some 3000 years before Jesus)

Horus was born on the 25th of December, born of a virgin, which was signalled by the Star in the East, which was in turn followed by three kings in search of the newborn saviour (Horus). At 12 he was already a prodigal teacher, at the age of 30 he was baptized by Anup. Horus had 12 disciples he travelled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking over water. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried and resurrected after three days.

One can also choose to believe Jesus had a life very similar to that of mythological Horus.

EDIT: What happened was that Islam went to get the strongest, most popular religion in the Middle Eastern region (Do not forget of the contacts that Western Arabia, where Islam began, with Egypt and the Levant, which were bursting with Christian fervor.), and base part of their story on there.

[Incongruous]

That's because those religions (And many others before them) based on the same story (Or some details of the same story) to found those religions. I'll give you a very simple hint.

Horus (As you must logically think, Horus was created some 3000 years before Jesus)

Horus was born on the 25th of December, born of a virgin, which was signalled by the Star in the East, which was in turn followed by three kings in search of the newborn saviour (Horus). At 12 he was already a prodigal teacher, at the age of 30 he was baptized by Anup. Horus had 12 disciples he travelled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking over water. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried and resurrected after three days.

One can also choose to believe Jesus had a life very similar to that of mythological Horus.

EDIT: What happened was that Islam went to get the strongest, most popular religion in the Middle Eastern region (Do not forget of the contacts that Western Arabia, where Islam began, with Egypt and the Levant, which were bursting with Christian fervor.), and base part of their story on there.

Been watching too many dodgy films on Youtube?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Islam - sweeping India, converting or killing it's people for the past century.

Hey, and now they think they own Europe too!

[Paradox]

Fahed, question: Why can't Allah have a son?

There are verses in the Qur'an that explain this, it's the shortest Surah so it isn't difficult to find.