Worst military mistakes.

[Pinkkiller]

umm well the big mistake adolf did was starting a war with russia ...wasn't ready for a 3 frontal war should have killed the other ones firstly

[Celtic_Punk]

Pin you must also take into account hitler desperately needed fuel. russia was the best choice hitler could think of... i personally think he could have just gotten it diplomatically. sure he hated commies(if WWII never happend i bet the americans and him woulda been best buds during the cold war lol) but keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer, as the saying goes.

[Ludens]

If oil was the problem, Hitler should have concentrated on North Africa and drive on through the Middle East. However, he didn't trust Stalin, and he had reason. The Soviets had already occupied several border areas that they had agreed were German. Also, the Red army was massing on the German border. It's speculated they were positioned there for an attack that would take place a year or so down the line, but it's still was very provocative. Fortunately for the Germans, the Reds were in attack columns that had been placed way to close together, effectively paralysing them during the first days of operation Barbarossa. The fact that they were commanded by incompetent lackeys didn't make things better either.

[AntiTank]

umm well the big mistake adolf did was starting a war with russia ...wasn't ready for a 3 frontal war should have killed the other ones firstly

Actually his fatal mistake was declaring war on the U.S. in hopes Japan would strike the USSR from behind.

Once Hitler did that, Germany was doomed.

Otherwise Hitler would have won. Remember, Germany took on far more foes in WW1 and nearly won till American Forces arrived and turn the tide.

[Mindaros]

The United States was very much a participant even before that, aiding both Britain and the USSR.

[Celtic_Punk]

the first stages of Barbarossa Stalin ordered his men to let the germans advance, they then surrounded them raped them. (see destruction of the 6th Army after stalingrad) there were just too many ruskies to round up. some prisoners of war were caught several times before they ever saw a camp. millions of troops behind the germans lines causing havok on their supply lines. Russia was (like for napoleon, and still would be, and always will be) a logistical nightmare. As I always say, The only way to take Russia is from the inside. Stalins gamble paid off beautifully. sure he lost milllllllliions of men, but that wasn't really a problem for Russia, given their high population. They had so many people they couldn't even afford to give them all guns. half would get a clip of 5 rounds, and the other half got a rifle. "the one with the rifle shoots, when he dies, the one with the ammo picks up the rifle loads and shoots." Sometimes I thank the Gods I wasn't a wartime Russian.

[Cullhwch]

the first stages of Barbarossa Stalin ordered his men to let the germans advance, they then surrounded them raped them. (see destruction of the 6th Army after stalingrad) there were just too many ruskies to round up. some prisoners of war were caught several times before they ever saw a camp. millions of troops behind the germans lines causing havok on their supply lines. Russia was (like for napoleon, and still would be, and always will be) a logistical nightmare. As I always say, The only way to take Russia is from the inside. Stalins gamble paid off beautifully. sure he lost milllllllliions of men, but that wasn't really a problem for Russia, given their high population. They had so many people they couldn't even afford to give them all guns. half would get a clip of 5 rounds, and the other half got a rifle. "the one with the rifle shoots, when he dies, the one with the ammo picks up the rifle loads and shoots." Sometimes I thank the Gods I wasn't a wartime Russian.

Eh, that whole "men sent to the frontlines without guns" thing is mostly an exaggeration from WWI. The Russians were actually pretty well-supplied during WWII after the initial German advance. They also largely eschewed rifles in favor of submachine guns. Quantity has a quality of its own.

And Stalin didn't "let" the Germans advance at all. After hearing news of the initial attack, he holed up in a country villa and only ordered his generals to "drive them back with powerful blows." He was too shellshocked to come up with any real strategy and his subjects suffered for it.

[Celtic_Punk]

i've never heard that. I'd like to see a source saying so. if stalin really did do that the germans advance to moscow and stalingrad would not have been so swift. the russians were waiting till the germans were deep into russia and for winter to come, knowing full well they were not prepared for it.

[AntiTank]

The United States was very much a participant even before that, aiding both Britain and the USSR.

But not as a Belligerent.

[Mindaros]

But not as a Belligerent.

No, but by the time the Americans were finally driving back the Germans in Normandy and Italy the turning point of the war had already passed - the battles of Moscow and Stalingrad, for instance, had ended (without American armies).

[AntiTank]

No, but by the time the Americans were finally driving back the Germans in Normandy and Italy the turning point of the war had already passed - the battles of Moscow and Stalingrad, for instance, had ended (without American armies).

Which were only possible because, one America supplied the USSR with critical supplies, such as food, boots, reliable telephone wire, trucks, rail and locomotives, avgas, etc.

Also by entering the War America obliged Hitler to send divisions to Norway, Divisions to the Mediterranean Theater, and yet more divisions to Vichy France.

Thats men who could have tipped the scales in Stalingrad. It also pulled Luftwaffe Squadrons from the Ost Front as well along with needed transport planes.

So by just by entering the War, America indirectly won Stalingrad as much as the USSR did.

There is a saying "Victory has many Fathers" and it rings very much true in WW2.

[Celtic_Punk]

I wouldn't say the Americans won Stalingrad as much as the Russians. thats a wee bit disrespectful to the Russians who fought and died in that place. they contributed in a way, but by no means did they equal what the Russians gave in that city.

[ironanvil1]

Actually his fatal mistake was declaring war on the U.S. in hopes Japan would strike the USSR from behind.

Once Hitler did that, Germany was doomed.

Otherwise Hitler would have won. Remember, Germany took on far more foes in WW1 and nearly won till American Forces arrived and turn the tide.

I'd dispute that, WW1 was pretty much over by the time US troops arrived, their presence hastened the end of the war but the writing was already on the wall for the Germans.

In WW2 the Germans over the long haul are still going to lose even sans US involvement as a belligerent, with a long, long bloody struggle on the Eastern front and Germany unable to invade the UK in the West. It'd probably end in mushroom clouds over Germany somewhere down the line.

[kuzduck]

worst series of military mistakes: wars the french fought

[Hegix]

worst series of military mistakes: wars the french fought

Are you just trying to be funny or do you have any type of rationale for that statement?

[Lysimachos]

Are you just trying to be funny or do you have any type of rationale for that statement?

I think it is a reference to this joke.

Of course they were not really that unsuccessful in reality

[Hax]

Well, it's true that France has never won a war in 200 years.

[AntiTank]

I'd dispute that, WW1 was pretty much over by the time US troops arrived, their presence hastened the end of the war but the writing was already on the wall for the Germans.

In WW2 the Germans over the long haul are still going to lose even sans US involvement as a belligerent, with a long, long bloody struggle on the Eastern front and Germany unable to invade the UK in the West. It'd probably end in mushroom clouds over Germany somewhere down the line.

"sigh"

1) I hate to break it to you, but the Germans would have won if America had not entered.

One: The French and British were too incompetent and utterly demoralized by years of defeats at the hands of the Germans. Neither the French or British had much to show for their efforts, while the German consistently beat the crap out of them and took a fifth less causalities than those two powers. The Russians did far better, but still had their problems.

Two: If America hadn't floated loans and weapons to the British and French once the war started France and Britain would have been unable to continue it as the Germans took over the main French Manufacturing areas and the Germans held most of Europe's explosives industry.

Three: The AEF by staying separate from Allied Command was able to gain intelligence of the German Offensives that the other Allies ignored and thus were able to position units to block the German thrusts.

Four: The AEF with its Argonne Offensive, cut the German's main rail supply line and made their hold in France untenable, thus pushing the Germans into surrender.

2) Without America's intervention in WW2, the USSR is doomed.

One: America supplied the USSR with 59% of its Aviation Fuel, 2.5% of all automotive fuel, 92.7% of its railroad tracks, 81.6% of all locomotives, 80.7% of all railcars, 33% of all explosives, 45.2% of all copper ore, 55.5% of all aluminum, 30.1% of all tires (considering the inferiority of USSR tires, this is an affect all out of proportion to its numerical value, also the UK also delivered 103,500 tons of natural rubber), 27.9% of all machine tools (again these were far more advanced than USSR machine tools and had a far greater impact than the numerical value indicates), 29.5% of all sugar, 15.1% of all meat. This is in addition to 14,795 Aircraft, 7,056 Tanks, 51,503 Jeeps, 375,883 Trucks, 35,170 motorcycles, 8,071 Tractors, 90 Cargo ships, 105 Submarine Hunters, 197 Torpedo Boats, 7,784 Ship Engines, and 15,417,001 pairs of Army boots.

If the USSR doesn't receive these shipments, then they are looking at 2.5 million men who have to be taken out of combat to work in the factories, several million men out of combat due to malnutrition or disease. Plus a supply network that isn't supplying much of anything.

Two: The Germans are averaging a five to one kill ratio against Soviet Forces, so the Soviets are losing the war of attrition. Also the Germans captured a large percentage of Soviet Manpower in early 1941 along with the USSR's breadbasket and coal basket. Many areas that Stalin controls are prone to rebellion and he has to station assets there to keep them in line.

Three: Without America in the war, Germany can send an additional 100 divisions to the Ost front, not all are necessarily Wehrmact divisions, but they will add the necessary punch to knock Stalin out in 1942-43.