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[Zenicetus]

I can therefore see that the majority of naval actions, blockades, defending and attacking trade routes and coastal raiding will be undertaken by frigates, leaving the ships of the line to slug it out in set piece battles.

I don't have a problem with that, unless chasing "pirates" becomes the kind of strategically meaningless busy work it was in RTW and M2TW. I think most of us would prefer a larger percentage of major, set piece battles on both sea and land.

What I have a problem with, is this:

Flotillas must be varied and made of fast and small as well as big and large ships, just as an army needs varied troops on the ground.

Maybe the use of the word "must" there is just advertising hyperbole. If not, do we really want smaller/faster ships to be a requirement in the fleet, to the extent that major battles can't be won with just the heavies?

Also I'm worried about the assumption that smaller = faster. A smaller ship with something like a lateen rig might point further into the wind than a square rigger, but nothing will outrun a ship of the line with the wind at her back. Larger = faster with some rigs, and some points of sail. There is also a relation of maximum speed to hull length for displacement hulls, although I'm not certain how much this was a factor with beamy, heavy ships of the line. Basically, the longer a hull is, the faster you can push it before it tries to climb up over the bow wave and plane.

Heck, just read the first book in O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin series, where Aubrey gets command of the sloop-of-war HMS Sophie. He's constantly having to deal with the fact that bigger ships, with more sail area, can outrun and out-maneuver him. Of course the fun of the series is in reading about the challenges of fighting against the odds, and that should be available in the Empire game too... but on the same level of realism. I just hope the game doesn't adopt some silly arcade conventions like sailing directly against the wind, or the equation that smaller always equals faster and more maneuverable. Because it just won't feel like sailing ship combat. Not to me, anyway.

I'm sure they'll make it look real pretty though... and maybe that's all they have to do to make a profit.

[Matt_Lane]

nothing will outrun a ship of the line with the wind at her back. Larger = faster with some rigs, and some points of sail. There is also a relation of maximum speed to hull length for displacement hulls, although I'm not certain how much this was a factor with beamy, heavy ships of the line. Basically, the longer a hull is, the faster you can push it before it tries to climb up over the bow wave and plane.

The ships of the line were large wide gun platforms that could take punishment but were slow and unmaneuverable. Speed required a long and narrow hull with plenty of sail such as that of the frigate or schooner.

If all of the games naval battles are in blue water then I can see first rates ruling supreme. If however we can fight in the Great Lakes or coastal waters where maneuverability is more important then smaller ships will also have a place in the line.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Well, fleets were supposed to have an intercept rating that enable them to engage nearby fleets, IIRC.

I assume that frigates increase the likelihood of a successful intercept whereas a fleet with only SOL runs the risk of enemies running in their zone of control ganking merchantmen undetected. It's no good having big guns if you can't find the enemy.

[hoom]

Even commands are streamlined so that orders are issued and then moves made, and thus speeding up turn time.

This seems to be saying that on the turn, you make 'move here' commands but the units only move when you click the End Turn button? I think that would be a good improvement.
The whole 'move instantly' bit is kind of annoying.
Also this may allow for a bit of strategic maneuvre/counter-maneuvre gameplay which is currently mostly impossible.

[Martok]

This seems to be saying that on the turn, you make 'move here' commands but the units only move when you click the End Turn button? I think that would be a good improvement.

Yeah, that's how I read it too. I agree that's a better setup than in RTW/M2TW -- I never did like that armies and fleets moved instantly.

Also this may allow for a bit of strategic maneuvre/counter-maneuvre gameplay which is currently mostly impossible.

Exactly. It could also lead to some interesting (and semi-humorous) situations; i.e., two enemy armies/fleets move towards each other, only to find next turn that they've passed each other and are now both in the other's rear.

[CBR]

Hmm. That movement system does open up for a proper MP campaign...


CBR

[Sol Invictus]

Thanks for the info Intrepid Sidekick. So it sounds like Frigates will be used as they were historicly; the eyes and ears of the fleet. I wonder if Frigates have the chance to run a blockade?

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Elmar and a few othjers are getting the point.

Smaller ships have more use than just duking it out on the battlefield (? Battlewater? Battleocean? Sea of battle? Contested seas?).

They enable you to "see" further and react to movements across a greater area of ocean.

God help a sloop that gets caught in a 1st rate's broadside though.