Washington Mutual went under. Seized and sold.

[Fragony]

Anyway, I don't really care about the ideological aspects of the bailout. At the end of the time is it worth putting up a possible 700 billion to save the entire broad economy while opening up the possibility to actually make cash in the long term or do we say "screw this" and let everyone fail? I'd go with the former. I'm not sure many of you really understand how much some of these companies are intertwined in the overall economy.

Don't dismiss the ideoligy because it is basicly nationalising these banks that will be under firm governmental control, it's essentially creating a shadow government, 700 billion, good for us europeans, bad for you.

[Puzz3D]

Don't dismiss the ideoligy because it is basicly nationalising these banks that will be under firm governmental control, it's essentially creating a shadow government, 700 billion, good for us europeans, bad for you.

Exactly! The bailout is going to be bad for US citizens as the resultant inflation will devalue the dollar causing the standard of living to decline in coming years.

[Koga No Goshi]

Don't dismiss the ideoligy because it is basicly nationalising these banks that will be under firm governmental control, it's essentially creating a shadow government, 700 billion, good for us europeans, bad for you.

We've already got that. We've spent billions and billions and billions and billions off the budget on all kinds of unregulated contractors and mercenary corporations who are accountable to no one, least of all the taxpayers, in no-bid contracts. So don't get all dramatic acting like this is the barbarians coming over the 7th hill. You ideologues had no problem with shadow government and huge unaccountable spending for the last 8 years.

For the record, I'm against the bailout. But because I think the people who perpetrated this fraud- and unlike you, I do not consider them innocent victims of regulations they had to follow, it was JUST the opposite, taking advantage of a situation where there was insufficient regulation-- should not walk away pretty. Unfortunately I think the CEO's and execs already did, and now the only ones who will REALLY suffer if we don't do the bailout is our economy, and thus normal people who had nothing to do with the crisis, and perhaps low end employees of some bigger firms. So, this situation is already a we're screwed and lose-lose, whatever happens. Which is PRECISELY what happens in any environment of Rich Privilege and deregulation.

[Fragony]

It is your problem so you have every reason to be passionate about it, but I don't recall calling them victims, just for arguments' sake.

[Koga No Goshi]

It is your problem so you have every reason to be passionate about it, but I don't recall calling them victims, just for arguments' sake.

You said they "had" to give these loans, which is a lie. Or at least a deliberate misrepresentation to fit your ideology. See my other posts about what kind of people were getting these mortgages before you try to play act like this was mommy government forcing the banks to give loans to poor people.

[KukriKhan]

Let's go easier on the "lie" and "play act" bits, to ensure a civil conversation.

And I point out that Fragony is Dutch, merely joining the conversation with his point-of-view - and with no dog in this fight.

[Koga No Goshi]

Let's go easier on the "lie" and "play act" bits, to ensure a civil conversation.

And I point out that Fragony is Dutch, merely joining the conversation with his point-of-view - and with no dog in this fight.

I'll try but I do honestly believe some people are being intellectually dishonest about the nature of this crisis to continue defending ideologies about deregulation.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hahaha.
"Flexible Lending Rules"

I least I don't have to listen to that sissy say "whoo hoo" on TV anymore.

CR

[Fragony]

You said they "had" to give these loans, which is a lie.

I am afraid it is one of these inconvenient truths. There is a whole lot of wiki to bark at if you must.

[Koga No Goshi]

I am afraid it is one of these inconvenient truths. There is a whole lot of wiki to bark at if you must.

If laws require companies to do something that was massively profitable for them, I would think you'd be in favor of that anyway. I consider this argument ridiculous to take out the profit motive and pretend these companies weren't making big bucks on signing the loans and then pawning them off. Everyone knows that's what was going on, anyone who works in financial fields in America anyway.