Caning Pupils

[KukriKhan]

Violence in any way or form can never, ever be accepted. Doing so is simply admittance of defeat and barbarism.

Adults use their words.

I agree. I think.

Please define, for the benefit of teachers and parents: 'Violence'.

[HoreTore]

I'm sure you know those mothers who try to cry louder than their children to make them behave...for hours every day. And who later may even get hit by their own children. Parenting is nothing you learn at school, every child is different and some children want a slap in the face because words don't hurt them and they feel like the boss as long as you just talk. And no I still don't advocate breaking their jaw bones, that's something entirely different.

And children do not listen. Honestly, I've got nothing against a caning when used as a final form of punishment - say if the teacher warns the student verbally, the teacher complains to the principal, and the parents receive a letter from the teacher. If the problem is not fixed by then, the teacher should have the option. Of course, if an alternative solution is found that actually works, I would be delighted to hear it.

Haven't you people watched the Nanny shows? How many times does she yell at or hit the kids?
And most of those kids are absolute terrors too... Face it, the old way of "hitting the lil bastard till it shuts up" is obsolete and retarded.

I agree. I think.

Please define, for the benefit of teachers and parents: 'Violence'.

Hitting them, showing them, etc etc... Basically, the illegal stuff.

To put this thing into another perspective; would you accept that your boss has permission to hit you at work? If not, why should children have to endure it?

Gah, students should grow some bloody spines and form a union. It's badly needed...

[Fragony]

Just kick them from school, if they don't want to swim let them drown. Kids who want to make something out of their life will thank you for it.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Haven't you people watched the Nanny shows? How many times does she yell at or hit the kids?
And most of those kids are absolute terrors too... Face it, the old way of "hitting the lil bastard till it shuts up" is obsolete and retarded.

Those children are also usually very young, certainly not teenagers or even usually elementary school. The same things do not work. Most people mature as they grow older, I grant you, but the strap or the cane can still be used effectively. Certainly the teacher will have more authority in the classroom. You don't need to hit the child because he won't shut up, but after other options have been exhausted, and the student hasn't learned, the cane should be an option. Nobody (well, very few) wants to be caned, and students will learn to respect the rules.

How about creating a class of um, dunno what to call it. Infraction? Formal disciplinary action? Which remains permanently on a record, is sent to colleges along with transcripts, etc.?

The student still doesn't care, and if the student is this out of hand, the parent in many cases refuses to acknowledge that their little angel is causing trouble.

Granted, some students still aren't going to care-- but I bet you the parents will in many cases.

From personal experiences, the students causing most of the trouble generally are not top quality academic material. Many of them will not go to universities.

I don't think any solution discussion can be meaningful without addressing the issue that, ultimately, this is a problem with parents. Not with classroom regulations. It's parents giving lip and attitude for some stupid rear-end teacher having the NERVE to say anything to "my kid." I mean if they had half a brain they wouldn't be teaching in the first place.

You have an fairly good point here - many parents certainly need a lesson in manners and the ability to listen to someone who says that their child isn't perfect.

Just kick them from school, if they don't want to swim let them drown. Kids who want to make something out of their life will thank you for it.

That is a potential solution.

[Koga No Goshi]

I guess I can't think of a good solution. I do think the problem is social, I think teaching is a spit-upon job and people treat it with the same amount of respect as the pay. And I think as long as that's the case you're going to have parents self-convinced that they know more than any stupid teacher with their crap job and low pay, and openly air that opinion regularly in front of their kids. And go to bat for them if the school calls said parent in, and tell off the teacher or the principal or both. Or file a lawsuit.

I think the best thing we could do long term would be to raise the public opinion of teachers. Paying them more would be a start, but the profession has no real respect. Everyone gives lip service to it just like with soldiers, but in truth, there are few parents not constantly backseat driving the classroom and thinking they always know the better way to be a teacher, or feel aggrieved that their kid is stuck with such a crappy one. Yet of course none of those people are going to leave their $80,000/year job to become a $48,000/year teacher themselves.

I witnessed relatively few SERIOUS disciplinary problems in the classroom that the teacher couldn't talk their way through. But I think watching a teacher assault a student wouldn't have created a better classroom environment than I had, honestly.

[Brenus]

Nobody speaks of COMPULSARY cane.
In France, physical punishment were NEVER allowed, or perhaps in the 1880s.
However discipline was imposed and respected. Then something happened but it was a society thing, not espacially inner school system.

[PanzerJaeger]

There's nothing wrong with physical punishment conducted in a controlled manner. The damaging psycological effects come in to play when children see adults lose control.

[Fragony]

However discipline was imposed and respected. Then something happened but it was a society thing, not espacially inner school system.

Ya. So kindly allow them to make a faceplant can't all be rocket-scientists someone has to mob the floor, kicked out of school because of bad behaviour: no welfare, have a nice starvation or work till you drop at the assembly-line. Don't want an education, fine, worst mistake you will ever make but I am all for the very basic human-right to go down as you please. Time they start apreciating what they get.

[HoreTore]

Those children are also usually very young, certainly not teenagers or even usually elementary school. The same things do not work. Most people mature as they grow older, I grant you, but the strap or the cane can still be used effectively. Certainly the teacher will have more authority in the classroom. You don't need to hit the child because he won't shut up, but after other options have been exhausted, and the student hasn't learned, the cane should be an option. Nobody (well, very few) wants to be caned, and students will learn to respect the rules.

This is barbarism, plain and simple. I thought we had evolved beyond the need to beat up those who won't listen

The things who work on toddlers won't work on teenagers, yes, but beating a kid should never be an option. There are other ways. The situation where "nothing but beating them would work" simply does not exist.

The bottom line is, I do not wish to live in a society where violence is an accepted way to make people behave. That's why I haven't moved to Iran.

[Louis VI the Fat]

the strap or the cane can still be used effectively. Certainly the teacher will have more authority in the classroom.

students will learn to respect the rules.

The bottom line is, I do not wish to live in a society where violence is an accepted way to make people behave. That's why I haven't moved to Iran.

My bottom line is, I do not want to live in an authoritarian society like EMFM outlined above. I don't want schools to be about teaching authority and rules.

My teachers impress me with their knowledge, not with their cane. I impress my teachers with my learning prowess, not with my readiness to obey orders.


However, then 'something happened in society', to quote Brenus. I think teachers need police protection in schools nowadays.

[naut]

My teachers impress me with their knowledge, not with their cane. I impress my teachers with my learning prowess, not with my readiness to obey orders.

Edit: On a tangent, but I thought the title said Caning Puppies at first.