The compassion of socialism.

[Strike For The South]

Are you serious? Are you saying we have local strongmen with a bit of cash taking over the government over and over occurs less in third world countries with weak governments than here?

That is not a comparable example. The constitution enumerates very few powers for a reason. Simply because two governments happen to be small does not mean they will follow the same path.

[Koga No Goshi]

That is not a comparable example. The constitution enumerates very few powers for a reason. Simply because two governments happen to be small does not mean they will follow the same path.

The further back you go into our history, before all the "unnecessary and wasteful additions" to government that people rail about, you can still find as much oligarchical corruption and such as today. And people lived shorter and were less well off and their biggest hope in life was that their kids had only 1 bad harvest out of 5 instead of 2. I don't think anyone wants to seriously return to the days when the government did nothing but diplomacy and defense, and if they do, I think that a cush suburban life has completely alienated them from the reality of what such a society would be like.

[Strike For The South]

The further back you go into our history, before all the "unnecessary and wasteful additions" to government that people rail about, you can still find as much oligarchical corruption and such as today. And people lived shorter and were less well off and their biggest hope in life was that their kids had only 1 bad harvest out of 5 instead of 2. I don't think anyone wants to seriously return to the days when the government did nothing but diplomacy and defense, and if they do, I think that a cush suburban life has completely alienated them from the reality of what such a society would be like.

I think one can thank the advancement of technology for the run of good harvests we have been having lately. The government screws you in the end. A necessary evil. I dont see how more power and more tax dollars solves anything. America should never follow Europe's lead in anything. We fought a war because of it. Not to mention people always point to countries like Norway and wonder why we cant be more like them. They dont realize we have 75 times the POP of Norway they red tape would be chrusing. I'd rather keep my money and take my chances. "cush suburban life"? Your Berkley is showing

[Koga No Goshi]

I think one can thank the advancement of technology for the run of good harvests we have been having lately. The government screws you in the end. A necessary evil. I dont see how more power and more tax dollars solves anything. America should never follow Europe's lead in anything. We fought a war because of it. Not to mention people always point to countries like Norway and wonder why we cant be more like them. They dont realize we have 75 times the POP of Norway they red tape would be chrusing. I'd rather keep my money and take my chances. "cush suburban life"? Your Berkley is showing

I think not following a good idea just because Europe is doing it is dumb.

And, I have always shown you respect Strike, so I would ask you not to make stupid assumptions about what I think or where I get my ideas based on where I went to school. But since my going to Berkeley apparently "disqualifies my credibility" on every conceivable topic, let me give you a little edification. The Cal Berkeley Republicans is the largest student group on campus. You need a 4.0+ GPA and at the time I applied, 1400ish on the old SAT system (max 1600) to get in, plus other considerations, they weighed the entrance exam more than any of the other UC's did. The school is predominantly Asian American; mostly conservative (socially and financially) academic minded Asian kids who put their heads down and go to class. The big majors are the MBA program and microcellcular biology-- a majority of the kids you will meet from Berkeley never even set foot in a polysci class or ethnic studies class or anything that might expose them to anything "radical." The "reputation" of Berkeley is much better suited today for a school like Eugene, Oregon or maybe Santa Cruz, and the idea that it's just some brainwashing leftie Che Guevara separatista academy is not only bigoted but outdated and uninformed. So I would thank you not to respond to me by throwing out a sentiment along the lines of "oh well yeah of COURSE you think that, you're from Berkeley", especially since I do not do that to you. I'm not ashamed to have attended what was at that time (I don't sit around checking rankings) the top public university in the United States nor do I feel that should have any bearing on what I say anymore than me saying "yeah well, stupid people come from Texas and they're all Republican so of course you'd say that."

I didn't make that comment (about cush suburbans) at you individually... I think if people think going back to an unregulated Robber Baron period is a good thing then they are delusional or just have no conception of what a society like that would be like compared to what they are used to. It's just like people complaining all the time about city life and loving the great outdoors but do they want to go live there with no electricity and no running water 365 days a year? Hell no.

[Strike For The South]

I don't think not following a good idea just because Europe is doing it is dumb.

And, I have always shown you respect Strike, so I would ask you not to make stupid assumptions about what I think or where I get my ideas based on where I went to school. But since my going to Berkeley apparently "disqualifies my credibility" on every conceivable topic, let me give you a little edification. The Cal Berkeley Republicans is the largest student group on campus. You need a 4.0+ GPA and at the time I applied, 1400ish on the old SAT system (max 1600) to get in, plus other considerations, they weighed the entrance exam more than any of the other UC's did. The school is predominantly Asian American; mostly conservative (socially and financially) academic minded Asian kids who put their heads down and go to class. The big majors are the MBA program and microcellcular biology-- a majority of the kids you will meet from Berkeley never even set foot in a polysci class or ethnic studies class or anything that might expose them to anything "radical." The "reputation" of Berkeley is much better suited today for a school like Eugene, Oregon or maybe Santa Cruz, and the idea that it's just some brainwashing leftie Che Guevara separatista academy is not only bigoted but outdated and uninformed. So I would thank you not to respond to me by throwing out a sentiment along the lines of "oh well yeah of COURSE you think that, you're from Berkeley", especially since I do not do that to you.

I didn't make that comment (about cush suburbans) at you individually... I think if people think going back to an unregulated Robber Baron period is a good thing then they are delusional or just have no conception of what a society like that would be like compared to what they are used to. It's just like people complaining all the time about city life and loving the great outdoors but do they want to go live there with no electricity and no running water 365 days a year? Hell no.

I didnt mean any disrespect merely a jest Im sorry What it all boils down to for me is this. Its not the healthcare its the taxes and the power. I see my father and mother put 100 hours at the grocery store only to see a third of their paycheck going to things great social experiments all while trying to raise 6 kids. I see a government which not only takes my folks money but then decides it can tell them what to do and its not like we have any say in anything since we dont have money our congressman wont listen hes to busy with the NRA or planned parenthood. Maybe I have a skewed view from being with my uncles who were and still mostly are blue collar blowhards. I was taught to look down on people who didnt bust hump for a living. Who didnt spend there entire lives working to provide for there families.

Its not like there isnt a flip-side to this though. I look at my grandfather now and am saddened. He was run into the ground by a life of back breaking work. His arthritis and the years of smoking and drinking to cope with the hours leave the shadow of what was once a powerful man. Whenever a topic like this comes up with us he always tells everyone around the table he never "took a damned cent from the government" and I wonder it might have been better if he did. My father was luckier and I was even luckier (I got to continue with my education and go to college) Maybe in a couple of years I will realize that I have been indoctrinated and be more forgiving with my views. but as of now I see government as nothing more than an oppressive tool used to keep us down.


I wrote nothing of substance Ill come back with something better tmrw its bedtime

[Koga No Goshi]

I didnt mean any disrespect merely a jest Im sorry What it all boils down to for me is this. Its not the healthcare its the taxes and the power. I see my father and mother put 100 hours at the grocery store only to see a third of their paycheck going to things great social experiments all while trying to raise 6 kids. I see a government which not only takes my folks money but then decides it can tell them what to do and its not like we have any say in anything since we dont have money our congressman wont listen hes to busy with the NRA or planned parenthood. Maybe I have a skewed view from being with my uncles who were and still mostly are blue collar blowhards. I was taught to look down on people who didnt bust hump for a living. Who didnt spend there entire lives working to provide for there families.

Its not like there isnt a flip-side to this though. I look at my grandfather now and am saddened. He was run into the ground by a life of back breaking work. His arthritis and the years of smoking and drinking to cope with the hours leave the shadow of what was once a powerful man. Whenever a topic like this comes up with us he always tells everyone around the table he never "took a damned cent from the government" and I wonder it might have been better if he did. My father was luckier and I was even luckier (I got to continue with my education and go to college) Maybe in a couple of years I will realize that I have been indoctrinated and be more forgiving with my views. but as of now I see government as nothing more than an oppressive tool used to keep us down.


I wrote nothing of substance Ill come back with something better tmrw its bedtime

I'm sorry as well I just wanted to address that openly because you are not by far the first person to reference my going to UC Berkeley and I do not let anyone simply pour ideas into my head, so I very much resent the implication from anyone that I'm just repeating things I heard during my Berkeley education, which was over five years ago now. My education neither started nor stopped at UC Berkeley nor did I have all liberal/progressive professors, nor am I just repeating things I heard there from radicals.

I agree the political system is very corrupt and very much bent to the will of BIG special interests and corporations with the mega millions to do largescale lobbying and fly Congressmen around on private jets and golf resort trips. But, I simply feel that a smaller government with less regulation would create more of that, not less. In all of our history there has been instance after instance of concentrated wealth rising up and completely dominating the landscape of our social, economic and political existence until they wrecked something, and then normal people having to take the "responsibility" for it and pick up the pieces and dust off America. I don't think we disagree on the problem, I just think that your solution would make that problem worse, instead of better. And I think the huge scandals we have seen in recent years resulting from decades of dedicated "deregulation" and trying to get government "off people's backs" is evidence of it.

And yes, there are a lot of people like your grandfather, who didn't sit around suckling off welfare for a living, but still are going to retire with near nothing, or bankrupt, or without a house. And even once we eliminate the people who were irresponsible, the people who didn't save well, the people who made poor investments, or the people who didn't take Olympic level care of their physical health for their whole lives (and who the hell can while working, anyway?) , you are still left with what I believe is the majority of people who try to do the right thing and work and save and live within their means and still, cancer comes along or a layoff comes along or a corrupt company bails and files chapter 11 erasing stock values and pension funds while the CEO's run off with a golden parachute and that's all it takes to wipe out a lifetime of work from a person who tried to be responsible. And I think there would be more of that, not less, with a tiny government and no regulation.

[Strike For The South]

Well It seems were just on different ends of the spectrum. I dont know how much longer we can beat these ideologies to death. You're keeping me up you know. Im a growing boy for gods sake!