China world power or not?

[Koga No Goshi]

I highly doubt it. This is more like how it goes in China:

You are smart and parents are middle class: You go to college
You are dumb/fat/mentally handicapped/whatever and parents are rich: You go to college
Your parents are dirt poor: Umm.....you have almost no chance of going to college

This ain't restricted to China.

[TevashSzat]

This ain't restricted to China.

I know it isn't but you don't know how bad it is in China.

You can literally almost do ANYTHING you want in China as long as you're rich. There is so much corruption/bribery that its not even funny. While there are legacies in the US colleges, at least they try to keep a semi decent facade that admissions are equal while in China.......

Also, in the US, if you're poor, but really smart, you can generally go to a good college. If you're poor and mediocre, not as great a chance, but a genius from a poor family can generally get access to good higher level education

Edit: @below post

Well, yeah that does seem to happen, but you never understand how bad corruption is in China unless you've lived there/have close kin or friends from there.

Just as an example: IIRC, no mainland Chinese individual is on the top 100 richest people in the world, all of the "Chinese" ones are from Hong Kong which is still kinda in a limbo state there (not independent and not like all other Chinese provinces) Thats because there are so many so incredibly filthy rich people in China that simply got their money illegally by scamming people, stealing from the government or something. You literally only go up in government by bribing the person above you.

Anecdote: My dad has some friends who are essentially part of the province level government. Basically, every new year they all get bribed by their underlings and then they bribe whoever they report too. Rinse and repeat. The sums that changes hands are so incredibly large too, like million of USD

[Koga No Goshi]

Well I'm sitting on a 10 trillion dollar debt in my country and people who are making it bigger everyday to line the pockets of military industries and private contractors so... I mean, I know what you're saying. But it's hard to feel like "my my we're so upstanding and upright and china, so degenerate and corrupt.."

[shlin28]

That’s one thing what worries me about China.
And from what I’ve seen they’re really building up their military.

Er... the army is actually decreasing in size, the only thing th PLA is doing is upgrading its army to a modern force on par with say... France? (Ignoring actual number of troops here) Surely any country, if they have enough money to do so, should be able to maintain a high-tech military force for defending the country? We don't want to use such old fashioned tactics like human waves do we? So messy...

A recent national law states that all high schools must teach their students martial arts.

Nonsense. There are military trainings for schoolchildren (even primary school children... I did it when I was in China, all I remember is that it was a half day off school) but at most its like one week of military training every year, doing stuff like marching, keep fit etc. (according to my cousins anyway). So all in all its not all that worse compared to the Combined Cadet Force in Britain for example.

And last thing I heard was that students aren’t admitted to any higher education if they’re not in a good physical state.

See Tevash's post, if you got cash, you can get into any university. (You use cash to buy "extra" exam points to get into a good school for example) Basing it on fitness would be stupid since half of all young people in China suck at sports. (Speaking from experience here...)

Phew...I actually made a post in the backroom? *runs around screaming*

[Strike For The South]

Cool.

I'm happy we both agree that China is in a category of its own.

That's below the belt and you know it. What has this got to do with anything?

What is at stake in this thread is whether China is a World Power or not. And nothing else. This is an important geopolitical question to the sole two current World Powers of the United States and France.

You and I as Texans and Frenchman (more importantly a Parisian) must keep the plebs happy with small trinkets and glimmers of hope right? Otherwise who would be there to worship us? You know I only go below the belt when you let me

[Don Corleone]

-Large military? Check.
-Cultural identity and history? Big honking check.
-Diplomatic presence on world stage? Check
-Nuclear armed? Check.


Seriously, I can't believe this is even open for discussion. Right now, China is the only reason Iran hasn't lobbed a nuke at Israel. They're the only reason North Korea hasn't tried to retake the South. They had record keepers and bureacrats when most of Western Europe was still wearing furs and painting themselves blue. And we're asking if they're a world power?

I am curious to see how things hold up for China as they get to enjoy their first global recession, and how well domestic bliss will hold up there when the money flow into the country slows down. But honestly, what country DOESN'T have minority issues? It takes more than a few Wiegers (sp?) to disqualify one from global leadership.

[shlin28]

It's Uighurs, pronounced like Wee-gers though.

[KukriKhan]

Phew...I actually made a post in the backroom? *runs around screaming*

Welcome.

Now that you've walked through the looking glass, do you feel any different? :)

[shlin28]

Welcome.

Now that you've walked through the looking glass, do you feel any different? :)

I think I will back away very very very slowly...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Welcome Shlin!

Please stay! The Backroom is where it's at!
More fun, more evil, more depravity than mafia games.


I thought you were Japanese?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"Superpower" was coined during the coldwar to describe a nation that was not only a World Power in the old Metternich-style dictionary, but that had a major nuclear arsenal and could lay waste to great swathes of the planet at once. Kukri is on track with his Cold War nomenclature, as usual.

By that narrow definition, China is not yet a superpower but Russia still is.

However, the term Superpower is coming to mean "pokes its nose in everybody's business on a global scale." By THAT definition, we're still the only Superpower, though China is rapidly heading in that direction and Putin is starting to bring Russia back to that level as well.

The old "World Powers" were Austria, England, France, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire. As the 20th rolled on, Austria and the Ottomans were torn to fragments, Germany acquired then lost that status, and England and France lost that status following WW2. Russia lost that status but regained it in WW2, while the USA sort of gained it then solidified the position during WW2.

The dawn of the 21st sees the USA as a World Power, probably China (if not, they will be soon as influence in Africa and the Pacific, economic strength, and ability to project military power increases), and possibly Russia (not there yet, but Putin is pushing for it and they do have lots of big bombs). One could even suggest that a United Europe would acquire the status of a World Power, though that has yet to move past an early formative stage.

[JR-]

i think "great power" is the term you are looking for. |:)

[Papewaio]

The old "World Powers" were Austria, England, France, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire. As the 20th rolled on, Austria and the Ottomans were torn to fragments, Germany acquired then lost that status, and England and France lost that status following WW2. Russia lost that status but regained it in WW2, while the USA sort of gained it then solidified the position during WW2.

I would say when they sent the White Fleet around a hundred years ago they were flexing (much like China in space now). They solidified there position by the end of WW1 when they were stating whom could come to the peace table and negotiate. Not that their statements had absolute power, just that they felt they could bully other nations away without consequences at that point.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I would say when they sent the White Fleet around a hundred years ago they were flexing (much like China in space now). They solidified there position by the end of WW1 when they were stating whom could come to the peace table and negotiate. Not that their statements had absolute power, just that they felt they could bully other nations away without consequences at that point.

Agreed.

F5: you are correct indeed sir, "Great Powers" was the phrase my neurons slipped up in recalling. Apologies.

[Rhyfelwyr]

China definitely seems to be a superpower, however as its citizens get a better quality of life they will soon start demanding political rights, same as happened in the west. Of course rampant nationalism may keep the masses happier for a bit longer...

[Beefy187]

Well if we took a gaming style attitude to judge what the super power is then....

Military: Considerable amount of army. Equiped with fairly modernised weaponary and nuclear weapon stash which is enough to make other countries tremble. However if we think about their army, they should be fairly weak as China still have one child policy. I mean what kind of family wants their only son to die in war? So low moral but if they can improve this maybe..

Economy: One of the best.. Almost all goods is "made in china." Their cheap labour doing a mass production. Their economy is pretty influential.

Life standerds/ Production: This is related closely to stability. As China it self is not that stable (corruption... like that whole milk incident) many Chinese immigrates over sea. But the chinese over sea are still part of china I suppose..

Culture: Not as much as western life style but Chinese is pushing their culture. Theres a China town or chinese community in almost every city. Plus Kung Fu movies is slowly getting more and more populer (Kung Fu panda even came out)

Technology: Cant exactly say cutting edge but fairly advanced. Cities are also well developed in the Eastern coast city it is almost as advanced as cities in the western countries (and Japan and so on...). If they can improve their country side a bit then they might easily flog USA.

I guess its just the matter of how united and organise Chinese people can be. Right now it seems like a race where America is slowly getting caught up, China catching up and India is running few hundred metres behind China but catching up.

Its still a super power I guess

[Prince Cobra]

China... the Olympic games were demonstration of its power and ambitions.

Demography is no longer the burden it was in the past. Now it is power. And nowadays demography is one of the keys. And this is just the beginning... I am inquisitive to see how far it will go.

[Meneldil]

Had a discussion about that in my International Relation class a few days ago.

My opinion is that China definately has the potential to be a world power, and to rival Russia, the EU or even the US.

But then, I think China by no means wants to act as a world police, like the US are actually doing. They just get in, deal with the worst dictators ever, get their oil, while selling their crap to peace-loving democracies, and that's about it.

[wasabi]

LOL. It must certainly seem so from Peking; buncha johnny-come-lately's.

For me: anybody who has nukes is a world power. Pop one off, and the rest of the world instantly pays close attention, and everything we thought we knew, changes; economy, military, politics... everything.

So, yeah: China = world power.

Agree, +1

A tiny island east of China, Taiwan, has the similar population as Australia. I was born in Taiwan and grow up in Australia. Most people in Taiwan, consider the world as = China or = USA.

China has much more problems that it needs to clean up before it can become a super power.

Issues such as poverty, minority groups, product&food quality controls...these are some problems that has long been in China, but never been truly looked at.

To be honest, a super-power can be use in any country or anyone depends what perception you have on the word 'super-power'. I consider my son have the super power of annoying me the whole day....

On the other hand, I do not think a country that produced milk product that killed infants should be so great.

[Kralizec]

A tiny island east of China, Taiwan, has the similar population as Australia. I was born in Taiwan and grow up in Australia. Most people in Taiwan, consider the world as = China or = USA.

Until a large number of Han Chinese get uppity and start to undermine the party's authority, it doesn't really affect their claim to being a superpower though.

To me, a superpower is a country with power that no other can exceed. The USSR and the USA were reasonably matched most of the time, but right now the USA is the uncontested (and therefore only) superpower IMHO.