The Great Game, another loss

[Brenus]

“Oh common the same guys that are crying foul now are the same ones crying foul when supposedly a genocide was being conducted in our own backyard.”
Well, aren’t they the same crying about Russian Intervention against Georgia?
I agree. I do remember all the reports and news about the Talibans, public hanging, widow dying of starvation because no right to work, no doctors for women for the same reason and the fact tat a man can’t touch a woman, a country back to the stone age, no music, nothing just a plain theocratic dictatorship. The intellectuals making noises for supporting Massoud and its Northern Alliance… Hey guys it is done… The “right of intervention” at work…
I supported the Russian intervention against the apprentice genocider, I support the US intervention in Afghanistan. I wish we would have done that in Former Yugoslavia at the start, when the Croats started to hunt the Serbs in Vukovar…
Can we expect better for Afghanistan. Yes. It was better, not perfect, under the king. I have not a great admiration of kings in general, but it did work, even under the communist rule…

“You mean that reality where Afghanistan was never planned properly and never conducted properly? Where the thing has been such a cock up that it is likely to re-create the conditions which leade to 9/11?”
Probably not well planned, I think. Who would have planned to invade Afghanistan before? So, it leads to improvisation meaning alliances with the Northern Alliances, and few war lords, and the disaster of Bora Bora. And of course no planning for development and democratisation, civil society and Post War Psycho-Social Progrmme, demining etc...
To invade a country is not so much a problem, to keep is. In fact to make it safe is.
Yes, the US founded and trained the guys who killed them. Yes, the US Foreign Policy was so blind by the “Communist” menace they didn’t see the other one coming. They forget that the best enemy of communism s fascism and Nazism because they hunt on the same grounds
But no, the Taliban have no chance to win without the support of a big power… Like the one they had against USSR. And apparently Putine and co thing a little bit clearer than the Reagan Administration…

[Fragony]

Well, aren’t they the same crying about Russian Intervention against Georgia?

Nope they have succesfully mentally blocked that, they are currently undecided nobody has told them what to think.

[Incongruous]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r-Taliban.html

Mmmhmm, the smell of history about to repeat itself, Taliban no.2 here we come!

Brenus what are you talking about?
I'm sorry but are you in support of the "intervention"? Or are you pointing out that it has been a cockup?
Again stop going on about the women for God's sake they still do not have it better, in fact most of them have it worse off.

[Kralizec]

Again stop going on about the women for God's sake they still do not have it better, in fact most of them have it worse off.

Care to support that?

Afghanistan was practicly a collection of stone age tribes in 2001. The only reason that some people (and women in particular) are arguably worse off is because the Taliban targets people wich are perceived to be pro-Kabul and have started getting illusions about being free to walk umolested in public, etc. The Taliban's reign was the proverbial bad peace that's worse than war.

I've not given up mentally on Afghanistan myself by the way, but a lot will depend on what happens in Pakistan.

[Brenus]

“Or are you pointing out that it has been a cockup?”
Actually, both. I did support and still do understand the US intervention after the mass murder (in police reference) of the Twin Towers and others. I do acknowledge the splendid missing of opportunities done.
Now, what the US should have done? Sheikh Omar refused to give Bin Laden, so let the guy walk around the world, let his supporters teaching the world how the US are weak, even not trying to revenge their dead. What a paper tiger, look how they are. They are scared of the Holly War, let’s do more…

I still think it would have been done differently. No permanent Allies Bases but from out side countries, Long Range Recon Patrol and neutralisation/elimination of all Taliban leaders. Search and kill, and let them organise the country. When he does not behave properly, we drop (heliport) a command, and out of the traffic. Soviet method by the way.
The French did that as will in Vietnam. The commando Van den Berg was attacking only the tax collectors and the payroll officers, and the district administrators. It was hundred times more efficient than the big operations. He was so efficient that he was assassinated by a double agent infiltrated in his commando.
It would probably cost less.

“Again stop going on about the women for God's sake they still do not have it better, in fact most of them have it worse off” Oh, you mean they are more than hanged an stoned to death, or killed because they drive?
Or perhaps they have to wear a double mobile jail (burka)?

One of my sisters worked on the Afghan Refugees Camps in Pakistan. Her translator was judge before the Soviet Occupation. She had pictures of her in mini skirt and driving a car in Kabul. Even under Soviet Intervention, the women were better off.
I hardly imagine what could be worst for a woman than to live under Taliban’s rules.

[Incongruous]

Yes, yes of coarse Brenus, the rampant rape which is now a daily feature of most women's lives really proves that things have improved. Those anti-Taliban warlords sure do keep them safe.

[Incongruous]

Care to support that?

Afghanistan was practicly a collection of stone age tribes in 2001. The only reason that some people (and women in particular) are arguably worse off is because the Taliban targets people wich are perceived to be pro-Kabul and have started getting illusions about being free to walk umolested in public, etc. The Taliban's reign was the proverbial bad peace that's worse than war.

I've not given up mentally on Afghanistan myself by the way, but a lot will depend on what happens in Pakistan.

Well in that case I would give up in every aspect of the matter, Pakistan is down the hole, what with having no money.

[Brenus]

"Yes, yes of coarse Brenus, the rampant rape which is now a daily feature of most women's lives really proves that things have improved. Those anti-Taliban warlords sure do keep them safe": And the Taliban were the best in women's right protection were they? And they never raped women? Or perhaps, because it was always the woman fault, it was not recorder or reported? Ooops...

[Koga No Goshi]

I think we're getting off track here.

The Taliban was really bad. However, drudging it up over and over again to justify how poorly plans have been implemented in Afghanistan is a recipe for nothing.

Afghanistan: Plans need to change or no?