Is teaching your child about your religion mental abuse?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If teaching religion to your kids is abuse than so is anything else a parent teaches.

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

[Strike For The South]

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

Well he didn't specify what religion or how fervently. He just made a blanket assumption. So I agree. I dont think one can call most anything a parent teaches a child "abuse" even if its religous extremism or racism. It is not the governments business to control thought within a household to begin with.

[Rhyfelwyr]

My above post should have said my parents were not religious.

I wouldn't think it is really necessary to indoctrinate children anyway, because it is predestined before time who will/will not be saved, these are the views most US Christians hold I believe. But then its a MATRIX situation - would you really have knocked the vase over if I didn't say you would have? Would it be your fault if they went to Hell because you hadn't taught them? No presumably since God is sovereign. So no need to indoctrinate children, just let them be aware.

[CrossLOPER]

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

Something like this.

[LittleGrizzly]

If a parent tells their child about religion then that is not indoctrination. At least no more than a child having an atheist parent who tells them religion is silly.

I completely agree!!!

If i was to just read off bad things religions have done day in day out to my child that would be indoctrination (the truth but a very baised selection of it) i think your indoctrinating your kid if your trying to make him religious like you or an atheist like you

I would share my theorys and my understanding of different religions with my child but i wouldn't push him towards any religion or non religion...

If one goes to church, children will want to come with them

From about the age of 8 i wanted to stop going to church, it wasn't till i hit about 15 that i was finally let off!!
I had to go on christmas day and everything!!! (damn evil christians!! )

TBH my mums fairly laid back on the whole religion thing, i would imagine there are loads of kids who went through what i went though.... and plenty worse...

Abuse is the wrong word... indoctrination is the more appropriate word... though indoctrination doesn't imply malicious intent, its similar to convincing your kid hes a con/lib like you

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Ronin]

Some said religion was not abusive...

* Cutting off parts of the penis.
* Starving for days/weeks.
* Prohibiting certain food.
* Letting the child die rather than having a blod transfusion.

That is just some examples from the most common religions... I could go on with the list of course, and if you start to include more zealot religions, it gets really bad.

you asked if simply exposing a child to religionm constituted mental abuse.

I disagreed with that premise.

those examples you are giving now are not simple exposition to religion....they are abuse...and not just mental abuse...just abuse flat out.

[The Celtic Viking]

At a young age, a child is programmed to believe whatever it's parents (or anyone it recognizes as authority) say, because testing things out scientifically at that age can be fatal. So if the parents tell their child about god, the child will not be making a choice whether to believe or not - it will just automatically believe because the parents said so. As the child grows up, it's highly unlikely that it will think more about it, and thus won't question it then either. The meme will have taken it's roots, and it would be very hard for the person to shake it off. Ask anyone who has deconverted from a faith they were taught to believe in as a child. Guess why religion always say "give us the boy and we'll give you the man"?

It is indoctrination. It is child abuse. If you really can't keep your religion for yourself, let your child first learn critical thinking, then tell it about religion (and not just your own).

imho yes but I am an atheist which kinda can be a religion of it's own when it comes to evangelistic behaviour

Atheism is not a religion any more than "off" is a TV channel. It simply isn't. Religion is the practice of worshipping a god/gods. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods, and therefore it is not a religion.

As for the "evangelical" part, yes, atheists can be outspoken, and we bloody well should be. If theists could keep their religion from affecting someone else than themselves, then yes, I'd say leave it be, but people don't. People vote on their beliefs, they try to pass laws and regulations, they blow themselves and other people up because of their beliefs. We simply cannot stay silent and just watch.

a religious person is usually far more respectful of atheism then an atheist if of religion

LOL! Go to the middle east and say you're an atheist - see how long you get to keep your head. Admittedly, the Christians in America are a little better - they just disown you if they're your parents, leave you if they're your friends, fire you if they're your employer or persecute you if they just know you're an atheist.

No, not everyone does that. A majority, though... yes.

and I keep that in mind, I think teaching someone about their religion is a better thing then teaching them to destroy it wherever they happen to find it.

Showing them that there's no basis for their irrational belief is not a bad thing. Sure, people can do it in bad ways, but religious beliefs doesn't deserve respect. That is not to say the believer doesn't deserve respect, but the belief doesn't. No belief does. It either stands on it's own merits, or it falls for it's lack of them.

The lack of self-preservation might be an instinct, we are social creatures. There has never been a society without religion, religion is probably the most basic codification of law, since religions have the same themes everywhere the same rules are in place everywhere. How do you explain that.

Care to back that up with some evidence? You can't just say "there has never been a society without religion" and expect us to take your word for it.

Why religion has been so widespread is because humans are naturally curious. We want answers, and when we didn't have the science to find them out, we made them up. That eased our minds, because it felt better to pretend to have the answers rather than to admit that you don't know.

In towns perhaps but towns are not the villages, scandinavia is a very very very christian place it puts our biblebelt to shame.

No, it isn't. Sweden is 85% atheist, Norway 80% and I don't remember the percentage for the Danes, but it's up in the 80's as well. It is a very, very, very secular and atheistic place.

If that is true, you would have to come up with a very good reason why there are so many budhists in asia, so many muslim in arab countries, and so many christians in the US... Am I wrong?

Tabula rasa is wrong. The reason why that is, is because religion is one thing that we're not born with - it's something we're taught. That doesn't mean that we're not born with anything - morals such as not to kill other people we're born with thanks to evolution and more importantly natural selection.

Human species is completely devoid of any instincts whatsoever.

This is so ridiculous I don't know where to start. If you don't know anything about biology, don't talk about it. Mm'kay? Anyone who has studied human behaviour would laugh at that claim. I just cry. Just to show how strong our instincts are, it's well understood by psychologists that control over a person's sexuality is pretty much equivalent to control over the person itself.

So....in a free, democratic and supposedly tolerant society people have to hide their religious affiliation? Is this really the standard the human civilization should strive for?

The other way around goes for atheists in America. Not to mention homosexuals... what's that whole "coming out of the closet" thing again?

As for being a Christian here in Scandinavia, I believe Kadagar is overstating things. Religion is simply not talked about. It's something people kept for themselves, and it wasn't until I came in contact with theists from other places that did not keep it to themselves that I started speaking out like I do now.

Indoctrination? Yes, but this can be said of just about everything a parent tells their children, starting with political views, then moral views, then a general worldview, etc, etc.

Political views, yes. Let the kid develop critical thinking before getting in to politics.

Moral views? Not completely. For example, we're born with a mental barrier against killing other people thanks to evolution and natural selection, as I mentioned before. Some may need to be taught, such as not to steal, but these are things that are needed to function in a society. That's why we should teach morals to children. Can you say something like that about religion, though? No. You don't need religion at all. So don't teach the kid about religion.

You'll have to define "general worldview" better for me to answer that as well, but I'm sure you can see my point here.

[seireikhaan]

At a young age, a child is programmed to believe whatever it's parents (or anyone it recognizes as authority) say, because testing things out scientifically at that age can be fatal. So if the parents tell their child about god, the child will not be making a choice whether to believe or not - it will just automatically believe because the parents said so. As the child grows up, it's highly unlikely that it will think more about it, and thus won't question it then either. The meme will have taken it's roots, and it would be very hard for the person to shake it off. Ask anyone who has deconverted from a faith they were taught to believe in as a child. Guess why religion always say "give us the boy and we'll give you the man"?

Programmed? Don't make me laugh. You act as though children are robots. I was taken to church every sunday, went to Religious Ed up through middle school, was confirmed in eighth grade. Then, I went to a Catholic high school. And yet, I'm still questioning Christianity quite a bit. Only through absolute ground pounding, "gonna go to hell" policies do you so completely ingrain beliefs.

It is indoctrination. It is child abuse. If you really can't keep your religion for yourself, let your child first learn critical thinking, then tell it about religion (and not just your own).

Again, you imply that parents who teach their child religion should have their kids taken away from them and put in foster homes. So much for freedom.

Atheism is not a religion any more than "off" is a TV channel. It simply isn't. Religion is the practice of worshipping a god/gods. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods, and therefore it is not a religion.

As for the "evangelical" part, yes, atheists can be outspoken, and we bloody well should be. If theists could keep their religion from affecting someone else than themselves, then yes, I'd say leave it be, but people don't. People vote on their beliefs, they try to pass laws and regulations, they blow themselves and other people up because of their beliefs. We simply cannot stay silent and just watch.

Perhaps you should try an anthropology or sociology course? Ever heard of animism? Shaminism? Religion simply cannot be defined as a belief in god/gods. Its a belief in the supernatural. Frankly, Atheists who are as sure of themselves as religious fanatics are just as bad.

LOL! Go to the middle east and say you're an atheist - see how long you get to keep your head. Admittedly, the Christians in America are a little better - they just disown you if they're your parents, leave you if they're your friends, fire you if they're your employer or persecute you if they just know you're an atheist.

No, not everyone does that. A majority, though... yes.

Hmm. Tell me, have you ever lived in America for an extended time? If not, then please don't comment so broadly about people you don't know.

Showing them that there's no basis for their irrational belief is not a bad thing. Sure, people can do it in bad ways, but religious beliefs doesn't deserve respect. That is not to say the believer doesn't deserve respect, but the belief doesn't. No belief does. It either stands on it's own merits, or it falls for it's lack of them.

Tell me, then, what caused the big bang? Where did the matter that created the Universe come from? Logically, there must be a source for everything. Or does time simply not actually exist, and everything's infinite. Something HAD to create the base substances, the oxygen, helium, iron, and so forth from which the universe was created. And I have not ever heard of any logical equation which shows how it came from nothing.

Care to back that up with some evidence? You can't just say "there has never been a society without religion" and expect us to take your word for it.

A better question, frankly, would be can you find a society which evolved with no belief in the supernatural.

Why religion has been so widespread is because humans are naturally curious. We want answers, and when we didn't have the science to find them out, we made them up. That eased our minds, because it felt better to pretend to have the answers rather than to admit that you don't know.

Not gonna argue much with you here.

Stop lying, it isn't. Sweden is 85% atheist, Norway 80% and I don't remember the percentage for the Danes, but it's up in the 80's as well. It is a very, very, very secular and atheistic place.

Sources? Census? Something?

Tabula rasa is wrong. The reason why that is, is because religion is one thing that we're not born with - it's something we're taught. That doesn't mean that we're not born with anything - morals such as not to kill other people we're born with thanks to evolution and more importantly natural selection.



This is so ridiculous I don't know where to start. If you don't know anything about biology, don't talk about it. Mm'kay? Anyone who has studied human behaviour would laugh at that claim. I just cry. Just to show how strong our instincts are, it's well understood by psychologists that control over a person's sexuality is pretty much equivalent to control over the person itself.

No argument here.

The other way around goes for atheists in America. Not to mention homosexuals... what's that whole "coming out of the closet" thing again?

Once again; unless you have lived in America for several years, in the various regions across America, I ask that don't comment so broadly about people you don't know.

Political views, yes. Let the kid develop critical thinking before getting in to politics.

Moral views? Not completely. For example, we're born with a mental barrier against killing other people thanks to evolution and natural selection, as I mentioned before. Some may need to be taught, such as not to steal, but these are things that are needed to function in a society. That's why we should teach morals to children. Can you say something like that about religion, though? No. You don't need religion at all. So don't teach the kid about religion.

How do you define what "morals" to teach children, then? How do you think morals originally were supported?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Depends on what the religion is.

Religion itself is a neutral concept. The aspects of religion are positive or negative.

Teaching good morals; Good
Teaching that God chose your people to be better than everyone else; Bad
Teaching respect and tolerance for others; Good
Teaching that women are inferior to men; Bad
Teaching that murder and theft and lying is wrong; Good
Teaching that heretics should be burned and prostitutes should be stoned; Bad
Teaching that Lord Xenu enslaved billions of people several trillion years ago and destroyed people in volcanoes with nuclear warheads and then the remnants of those slaves became little demons which invaded your body and cause all psychological problems and therefore you should never see a psychologist or take any kind of drugs and that you need to donate your life and your money to the cult of Scientology:

So bad it hurts my brain to imagine this thing still exists.

Crusades/jihads/holy wars:

So ignorant it makes my stomach do flips.

religious persecution in Russia and China: Just as bad as the bad parts of religion.

[Viking]

No, it isn't. Sweden is 85% atheist, Norway 80% and I don't remember the percentage for the Danes, but it's up in the 80's as well. It is a very, very, very secular and atheistic place.

Thats's not correct. I believe it was around 20% Christians. The rest are not atheists; I saw an EU survey linked to some time back, and a lot were labelled as believing in some sort of "life force". (http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/a..._report_en.pdf; p. 9, France appears to be the country with the most atheists in Europe)

As for being a Christian here in Scandinavia, I believe Kadagar is overstating things. Religion is simply not talked about. It's something people kept for themselves, and it wasn't until I came in contact with theists from other places that did not keep it to themselves that I started speaking out like I do now.

Personally I find it talked about rather frequently, ho hum.

Some may need to be taught, such as not to steal, but these are things that are needed to function in a society. That's why we should teach morals to children. Can you say something like that about religion, though? No. You don't need religion at all. So don't teach the kid about religion.

This depends on how you want society to function; and if you believe that it should actually function at all.

Too much censorship on these boards.

I doubt anything but swearwords was removed. I was actually going to type a reply to your post; but it dissappeared before I got time to quote it.

[Caius]

Sometimes you, as a parent(please notice that I'm not one), one uses religion to explain certain things that exceed the natural or are hard to teach at their age(e.g. Grandmum made the bag and went to Heaven). It also works to delimitate whats good and what is not, and to prepare them to be teached about religion. Its not a mental abuse, its just teaching them what is good and bad for God (the Christhian one and the other Gods also). If you send them into a catholic school, they are teaching them a lot more of God, but in any point they are commiting mental abuse. Later, if that child doesn't believe in God, is his or her choice, and if in one moment of their lifes they believe in God, good. If they don't believe in God for the rest of their lifes, good also.

Maybe you should define what mental abuse is, if you are still in the forum.