How Org could better serve the needs of MP players,Clans and the MP community?

[Kagemusha]

You guys are in danger of getting a new thread in the frontroom or maybe it should be counted as backroom material.Hmmm...What the name should be..

[Magyar Khan]

darkroom? with a 18+ rated pass? dunno what elmo is going to reveal next... ;)

[Kagemusha]

I guess we can only wait and fear the worst. But anyway as many of you can see by looking at your user information, some strange rambling about tournaments won and tournaments joined has appeared, so there is work in progress for some new features based on ideas proposed in this thread.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

darkroom? with a 18+ rated pass? dunno what elmo is going to reveal next... ;)

Wolfroom!

[UglyElmo2]

You guys are in danger of getting a new thread in the frontroom or maybe it should be counted as backroom material.Hmmm...What the name should be..

Ooops! Sorry Kage! I will go back on-topic. Sometimes I get a little distracted. hehe The good thing about looking like me is I don't have to spend much time in front of the mirror or much money on grooming. If I did, I would just be wasting my time and money, since I would still be an Ugly man, just with a shave and a haircut. When you are Ugly, if you "let yourself go" nobody notices. :)

Another thing the .org could do to interest the future TW MP community would be to create it's own team of expert MP players. Maybe call it the Orgs, b0rgs (as a parody of an old insult. Turn a negative into a positive! Show that you guys can laugh at yourselves.), the OrgASMs, or whatever else the .Org can come up with.

What I envision is a 2v2, 3v3, and a 4v4 team, or possibly several depending on interest. It could consist of a team of newbies, a team of average players, a team of better than average players, and a team of expert players. Maybe an expert team of newer players and one of "Ancients", or a ModSquad team (Who wouldn't want to beat up on mods/admins!!!).

The "Borgs" teams could be promoted in all the other forums as accepting all challengers. Veteran players could challenge the elite "Borgs" team to see their skill level. New players could ask questions of the "Borgs" to learn more about why they lost. As long as those chosen as "Borgs" are willing to help players improve their skills, it could work. My Ugli community did that very thing for awhile and we were able to almost double our membership because of it. The players saw how we were not only fairly decent at the game, but a lot of fun to play with.

If the Borg teams get beat, the winners could be offered a unique icon for the forum, and/or their name on a .org page listing those winners.

The b0rg teams could be rotated around. Or you could make the winners of a b0rg match the new b0rg team to beat . . . Like an ongoing King Of The Hill tournament. Lots of way to handle such things.

The replays of the matches could be used as teaching-aids for newer players. Maybe some of the more expert players could offer up a critical evaluation of when and where the battles were won or lost.

Lots of things one can do to increase interest. The most successful have FUN as the main emphasis. You want this game to be challenging, but FUN for everyone. Sometimes you have to SHOW people how to have FUN, or that it is ok to have FUN. Especially when they see the Borg teams are both good players and are having FUN playing.

I think that about makes up for my off-topic-ness don't you think Kage? I know it was written in a sort of Stream-of-consciousness way, but hopefully it is enough to get others to add some input and ideas. :) hehe

[Kagemusha]

Not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all, Elmo.

[UglyElmo2]

You, me and Gregoshi could be the b0rg team called "Team Rout". Professional victims to make the new players feel good about their abilities. :)

[Magyar Khan]

Good idea elmo. Let new players be able to get some training from org vets....

[UglyJun]

[QUOTE=UglyElmo2;2053206892]
What I envision is a 2v2, 3v3, and a 4v4 team, or possibly several depending on interest. It could consist of a team of newbies, a team of average players, a team of better than average players, and a team of expert players. Maybe an expert team of newer players and one of "Ancients", or a ModSquad team (Who wouldn't want to beat up on mods/admins!!!).

The "Borgs" teams could be promoted in all the other forums as accepting all challengers. Veteran players could challenge the elite "Borgs" team to see their skill level. New players could ask questions of the "Borgs" to learn more about why they lost. As long as those chosen as "Borgs" are willing to help players improve their skills, it could work. My Ugli community did that very thing for awhile and we were able to almost double our membership because of it. The players saw how we were not only fairly decent at the game, but a lot of fun to play with.]

Awesome idea again you can count me in, but don't fall asleep on your Hill ok :)
by the way where is that old Ugli Obake?

[Kocmoc]

Well, I worry a bit about new player, player who never touched the MP-part of TW.
From what i have seen so far, the game has many mechanics hidden and some are very hard to understand.
If your completely new, you have tons of stuff hidden your brain, alone the moral is some unique thing in a game.

What I could imagine is, to create replays, either as real replay in game or on youtube with fraps.
To create a step by step workshop for new player. It could look like this:

1. How to setup your army, getting some good setup
2. How to create grps and set the different units - ctrl + 1-9 and F* keys
3. What are the different formations - open formation, why are missles in low ranks?!?
4. How flanking works, how rear works
5. show the flags and what info you can get....

.... and so on.

We could create different replays and show easy how something is done an what certain things mean.
Alone the fact of the general, the difference .... there is a lot.

In the first place, it would draw people to the org, it would get used and it could be some valuable recourse.
It also could prevent new people to leave the game early again, since they dont stand a chance online.

[UglyJun]

Kocmoc :)
i like to help you with that will be fun :) could even fraps it !!!

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I posted a VI MP battle I did with Barocca up on YouTube, so we can do this me thinks .

[gollum]

Making the transition to multiplayer in TW games is difficult indeed and it has a steep learning curve both in terms of psychology as well as in terms of skill.

There are a number of ways to aid this;

1. Battle video commentaries in which army selection, main army component elements (melee infantry/spears/cavalry/missiles) and their correct/wrong uses are discussed relative to the engine workings.
A good example of this are videos like those of Cluny the Scourge for RTW - his comentaries are pretty good for that game, but also for TW in general to a certain level (they won't help most people in this thread but may help new players) and people coming into the game can learn by seeing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuJX...eature=related

2. Written guides, like the one St Louis de Colombe had made for MTW/VI and is still here in the org (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...or-Multiplayer). Its outdated of course about money levels, army selection etc, but its still relevant in describing the 3 basic phases of an mp battle, that is missile skirmish/melee phase degenerating into skirmishes (if opponents of equal skill)/depleted units regroup end game, as well as discussing to some extent how army selection can be loaded to achieve a certain battle plan (more melee infantry=rush army ie avoid shootout altogether and go straight for the kill, more missiles=win shootout so avoid engaging too quickly to weaken enemy with missiles, more cavalry=aiming to harass missile line during shootout to tip the missile duel and/or flank locally or globally during the main melee).

The same can be done in writing/discussing the basics of team tactics/strategies; ie how 1v1 is different to 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 respectively.

For example, in 2v2 the distances between allied armies are so small that the two armies can fight litteraly as 1 and there is little space for double teaming unless you are facing very inexperienced/new players.

In 3v3 space between armies is bigger and double teaming tactics work especially if the terrain has features that aid to this (large unpassable rock in the middle of one team side, say).

Its important also for new players to know that this (double teaming) is the dominant tactic and also how to counter it - ie you need to compress enough in order to mesh with your center team mate but not too much because you both may take massive casualties if the opposition shifts to shooting the massed formations OR you may act as an anvil for your centre teammate by setting melee units to hold formation, missiles behind to avoid them being picked off by cavalry but also add to numbers and so avoid rout by local outnumbering due to the double team and so enable your centre teammate to hammer by hitting the double teamers in the flank.

In 4v4 knowing how to do/deal with double teams is even more important as distances between armies are so large that local superiorities/double teams at the flanks are even more easy to pull off.

Also the importance of how to play according to which side in the battle line people take/appear ie a player that plays center in a 3v3 team game should be an experienced player/leader and should dictate the pace/plan/strategy of his team because his army can reach either flanks andall the major decisions are practically his.

3. (and this probably the most important one:) Learning by regularly playing on a conistent basis with a regular group of people one can suit in. Obviously clans are the best such group of people, but there is no reason why less "coloured" groups be organised by members of various clans. This is the most effective way, because unless you go through the experience yourself you can't really learn by just watching others play or by just reading guides and posts. If however you do ply consistently, then reading can help very much as you can relate what you read to what you experience every week/day. Esecially at first that there is a need to deal with repeatedly being beaten and make mistakes, a sense of acceptance and belonging is key. Such relationships are partially "random" and "chemistry" - certain people will match with some and not so much with others due to temperament and character, but its important that theoverall spirit of the communnity is tolerant, friendly and humorous to a certain degree.

The keys are companionship, fairness and regularity. If people feel comfortable, they are treated properly, are having fun and find common interest they will take root - otherwise they will never last the long and snaggy process for mastering the game, and let's say things as they are: TW mp can be tremendoulsy fun after you know what you are doing, why you are winning and why you are losing, and this may take (depending on how often and how much you play) from 2 months to 6 months :)

Also important is to mesh new/inexperienced players with more experienced players in non-competitive team games. In that way there can be in-battle assistance and learning on the spot and games are more interesting overall for all participants - if on the other hands you let the noobs team up and just get trashed all the while, the vets get eventually no(?) satisfaction and the noobs don't know what hit them, so become dissapointed and leave and that's it.

4. As outdated as they may be, engine workings revealed for MTW by CA may also help. I am certain that bonuses may have changed and that the engine is somewhat different, but not that different that the then information at principle level is obsolete as it is fundamentally the same principles/workings even if the numbers aren't exaclty the same.

Here are the morale TW engine workings from MTW/VI:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Morale States:
--------------

Impetuous: 10 and above
Steady: 2 to 14
Uncertain: -5 to 5
Wavering: -14 to -5
Routing: Less than -6

Rout point is -18 in MTW/VI for MP.
Routed units will keep routing until their morale rises to -6 or above.
Hitting the rally key pumps +8 morale into the unit.

Impetuous units will pursue enemies for longer, and may disregard orders to hold position. #Some troop types may charge without orders.

Uncertain or wavering units which are not fighting are less likely to charge, and those who are fighting are more likely to fall back.


Negative Morale Effects:
-----------------------

Loose or disordered formation: -2
Outnumbered 2 to 1: up to -4 (range = about 75 meters)
Outnumbered 10 to 1: up to -12 (range = about 75 meters)
Outclassed in quality and speed: modifies the outnumbered penalty.
One flank threatened: -2 (range = about 60 meters)
Two flanks threatened: -6 (range = about 60 meters
Charged in flank: -4
Infantry charged by cavalry in flank or while disordered: -6
Charged in flank by unit hidden in forest: -8
General's death (for first few seconds): -8 to all his units except highly disciplined units
General's death (after first few seconds): -2 to all his units except highly disciplined units
Routing Friends: up to -12 for seeing 2 equal or higher level friendly units routing. #Elite and disciplined units consider lesser types as 1/2 a unit for this calculation.
10% of unit is dead: -2
50% of unit is dead: -8
80% of unit is dead: -12
Taking casualties from enemy missle fire: -2 for a duration less than the reload of the firing unit (additional -4 for gunpowder weapons)
Unit is very tired: -2
Unit is exhausted: -6
Unit is totally exhausted: -8
Losing: Up to -8 (up to -14 if losing to cavalry)
Skirmishing without ammo: -6
Skirmisher pursued for a long distance by equal speed unit: -6


Positive Morale Effects:
----------------------

Two flanks protected: +4
No retreat possible (usually castle sieges): +8
No enemies around: +4
Two enemies routing: up to +8
Uphill Position: +2
Winning: up to +6
Unordered charge: +4 (such as when impetuous knights charge automatically)
Outnumber Enemy 3 to 1: +4
General's unit: +2
Within 50 meters of general: +1 morale per command star
Beyond 50 meters from general: +1 morale per 2 command stars

5. And of course that the gameplay is actually enjoyable and allows for a continual rotation of different army styles without too many artificial rules and restrictions and that an appropriate money level (that accounts for upgrades and morale levels) is selected. For the first, there is nothing or little to be done as its up to the developer. The second however rests with the community. In general, there is an optimal or quasi-optimal level of money the game is played at for balance purposes.

This is because if too much money is used units become unroutable and the match up relationships are skewed to the point that unit selection/upgrades/flanking only are the determining gameplay factors. If on the other hand too little money is there can be no significant end game as depleted battle-fatigued units after the main melee can't fight it out and outnumbering penlties in large team games may give insta routs in double teams and prevent having time for succesful counter maneuvers which means the game is more of a first-come-first-served type of gameplay with the initiative overexagerated resulting in rush moves/strategies dominating.