Israel jails organiser of peaceful protests

[Hax]

I agree with Meneldil. I don't think a single state solution would work. A confederacy-ish state might work for some time, but unless the military arm of Hamas ceases the rocket attacks or is removed entirely and willing to talk with Israel, things like that aren't going to work at all.

[Fragony]

Hamas will simply be replaced when they do, that is supposedly already happening if my sources are good.

[gaelic cowboy]

Hamas will simply be replaced when they do, that is supposedly already happening if my sources are good.

I don't think Israel will make the same mistake again and encourage a break in Gaza the last time they ended up with Hamas after. The hardline sunni guys who tried to set up last year I think got a bit of a beating from Hamas from the get go.

[Hax]

Hamas will simply be replaced when they do, that is supposedly already happening if my sources are good.

Probably, yes. It happened with the PLO and Fatah as well. The people not interested in peace will always find a new terrorist group to support. The important question is how this vicious circle is stopped.

[Fragony]

Probably, yes. It happened with the PLO and Fatah as well. The people not interested in peace will always find a new terrorist group to support. The important question is how this vicious circle is stopped.

Not pushing the green wave, biggest opportunity wasted ever. A media barrage of naming and shaming is a powerful tool. We let the modernisation of islam slip right through our fingers. The (political)Islam IS the cause of the conflict, we got to take away it's legitimacy as a political alternative.

[Hax]

Not pushing the green wave, biggest opportunity wasted ever.

Oh yes, certainly. Although we could've talked with then-president Khatami, but for some reason, we didn't. I don't know why.

[Fragony]

Part of Obama's appeasement blunder to take a soft stance against the Iranian goverment, a misjudgement they only got more confident. Europe is naturally as useless as ever. The inevitable next wave won't be the potential allies against the Islamists they could have been, now the west is all talk. Khatami is also trash by the way, an opportunist we would simply need.

[rory_20_uk]

Hard stances only give the Iranian President more "it's all the American Infidels' fault! Blame them!" as of course the economy is a mess, and yes, security is tight due to these external threats. Without sanctions, those in the country would then question why there isn't a utopia and in the medium term more good would come out of it.

I don't understand the obsession with nukes. Syria has a very large number of rockets with Chemical / Biological tips with a very low rocket to launcher ratio which is what you need for one massive strike. This would turn the greater part of Israel into a plague-ravaged morgue... yet this isn't apparently a massive issue. One or two nukes that would in fact do far less damage is though.

[Idaho]

Oh yes, certainly. Although we could've talked with then-president Khatami, but for some reason, we didn't. I don't know why.

Because western governments have always preferred isolated, unsupported middle east regimes to strong independent ones.

[Idaho]

Probably, yes. It happened with the PLO and Fatah as well. The people not interested in peace will always find a new terrorist group to support. The important question is how this vicious circle is stopped.

Perhaps their 'interest' in peace would seem more possible, plausable and even desireable when they aren't barracaded in an open prison with frequent air raids, assassination of leaders + the killing of whoever was nearby, settler intimidation, random pot shots from Israeli soldiers, bulldozed houses, refusal of citizenship, confiscation of lands, imprisonment without trial, detention with torture, seperation of families, destruction of businesses and livelyhoods, etc, etc.

What you are calling an 'interest in peace' would be seen as an acceptance of this status quo. In fact there are peacefully motivated groups protesting all of the above, but their leaders get imprisoned.

[rory_20_uk]

Israel is complaining that Hamas has some AA missiles, preventing Israelis unrestricted access to the airspace! How dare they? Surely they realise their role is to be forgotten and slowly die on the vine? Next they'll be saying that they should have sovereignty over their own airspace, land, water supply, territorial waters... where will it end?

[Fragony]

Gimme a break, Gaza has more atraction-parks malls and swimming-pools than any European nation, fattest people of the world after oilstate Qatar. No surprise with the billions of aid they get.

[rory_20_uk]

Frag, you do speak some cobblers sometimes.Here is a study that shows significant levels of stunted children indicating chronic malnutrition (although I accept there are also levels of obesity - below levels seen in Europe / USA).

Billions of aid? I'm not seeing that figure anywhere. Oh, except the $2bn that America gives Israel annually.

[Fragony]

Well a lot would go here I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvOAufwwnAo

[Idaho]

Well a lot would go here I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvOAufwwnAo

Oh my god! The opulence! A new 'mall' of ten shops opens in a city of over a million. The size of that place! It's almost as big as a mall that you would find in a small provincial US town. That shows that everything is a-OK and those Palestinians should just stop whinging

[Fragony]

Oh my god! The opulence! A new 'mall' of ten shops opens in a city of over a million. The size of that place! It's almost as big as a mall that you would find in a small provincial US town. That shows that everything is a-OK and those Palestinians should just stop whinging

Wish we had malls with so much luxory goods, posted wrong video but it's not hard to find. Yeah the worlds second fattest people really should. Gaza is a fully stocked paradise compared to it's neighours, courtesy of the west throwing with billions of dollars.

http://www.google.nl/images?hl=nl&so...n+zoeken&gbv=2

try googling gaza market, no wonder they are so fat. Must be a zionist conspiracy to make get stuck in the tunnels

[Idaho]

I know I shouldn't bother, as you are getting increasingly barking, but I can't resist.

So let me get this straight:

Wealth and some new commercial buildings in Gaza = blockade is meaningless and everyone is just dandy
There are some fat people in Gaza = All people in Gaza are well fed

Ok - if the blockade doesn't matter - how come the Israelis got so het up that they shot a load of sailors?

Some choice quotes from one of these:

Wilson Voice:

This mall is bigger than our mall in Wilson. In looking over the Palestinian Authority website, you get a different view of Gaza. These people do not look like they are starving to death, they are better dressed than people you run into everyday at our local grocery stores.

It's evident that the P.A. is getting richer for the purpose of producing more and more nukes to shoot at Israel, while they get a free ride from the world to build malls. That Israel is starving out Gaza is just plain ludicrous. What we see is what the Gaza government wants us to see, the slums of children that the Hamas' are starving ,and not Israel.

A mall bigger than in Wilson! A city of 50,000 people! My god! The Palestinian Authority is getting rich with the aim of shooting nukes at Israel? Keeping some suitably barking company here.

[Fragony]

You need a lot of fat people to be the second fattest people on earth and surroundings, not some. Anything else.

[Idaho]

According to this http://www.expatify.com/news/the-wor...countries.html Israel and Egypt are in the top 10. It would seem unlikely that Gaza would not be on the chubby side. But none of that addresses infant and juvenile nutrition levels.

[Fragony]

Wut is there a also humanitarian crisis in Israel and Egypt, we must send a Flotilla at once

[Rhyfelwyr]

Wish we had malls with so much luxory goods, posted wrong video but it's not hard to find.

The video said they were mostly low quality goods from China, plus there is no electronics or jewellery and such things.

Also, how common are such malls? Is this appearing in the news because it is a one-off?

Still, beats my local economy of card stores and charity shops.