Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Sigurd]

Sigurd,
ATPG informed us that some characters start with powers from higher levels, presumably also powers like force breath.
Of course, it would not be a good idea to publicly reveal such informations anyway

You could be right, as I have probably missed this tidbit of information. It could also be a cover for Sith having a Jedi Initiate cover role and being caught using say a Jedi Master power.

[Andres]

Djeez, how could we possibly miss that?

Unvote; Vote : Sigurd

[Diamondeye]

Djeez, how could we possibly miss that?

Unvote; Vote : Sigurd

Sigurd, explain yourself

[Csargo]

Really?

New choice: Ichigo

Yes. You should die. Again.

[Yaropolk]

Vote: Sigurd

[Sigurd]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are looking kinda cloaked and mysterious Andres!!!

Besides, I think Andres is pulling a mind trick on you all. I suspect he is using the anagram trick. The real title says: Dotard Hither Folks. I can only imagine what Andres makes it say.

[Zack]

Okay why is it no-one understands what the YLC is saying/doing. I makes me ing frustrated to read since he's acting completely logical.
unvote; vote: Zack. I can't decide who of YLC and Ignoramus I want lynched - an initiate striking me as town, or something stronger that I am as convinced about? So I'm taking the third option and loding my vote on Zack as he's either playing stupid or he's really, really deft when it comes to YLC's reasoning. Perhaps he has a reason to let the case on YLC continue despite being outargued?

What? He plays the "woe is me, lynch me instead of powerful Ignoramus" then goes back and votes Iggy.

[Renata]

Ok so first off Vote Abstain I see no point in choosing a distinct canidate yet

secondly what is the case against me exactly and is it still valid

Oh my good lord. Almost I begin to believe you town -- scumminess at this insane level is almost always a town province, you know? But then you have to go claim force breath.

Please to be providing your role name to pevergreen, dcmort. If someone tries to vig you tonight and fails, it would be good to have that on the record ahead of time.

[Renata]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are looking kinda cloaked and mysterious Andres!!!

Besides, I think Andres is pulling a mind trick on you all. I suspect he is using the anagram trick. The real title says: Dotard Hither Folks. I can only imagine what Andres makes it say.

Sigurd used a nice neat oval shape, while Andres used a scraggly pencil tool. Hence, Sigurd is scum, because good is scruffy and evil is neat. QED.

unvote, vote Sigurd

No, just kidding.

unvote, vote YLC

Diamondeye, you wanna come have *another* chat with me? I'm still waiting for the coffee to kick in, but maybe you can explain your take on YLC while that is happening.

[TinCow]

YLC and Ignoramus need to die. Do not let them off the hook. Let's take a look at their defense in some detail.

First, we have YLC's old statement before the current lynch vote, about not trusting Rebel Jeb until he was dead:

Kind of pointless if the recruiting mechanic is automatic or based on a living Sith Master. I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I'm not trusting Jeb until he's dead.

In his first defense post, YLC explains this further:

Vote: Ignoramus

I honestly suggested what I did because I thought it best. I'm not going to trust power roles just because - anyone is susceptible to the darkside as far as I know, so anything anyone says could be motivated by it, unless they are proven innocent by lynch, hence why I would only finally trust RJ when he was dead. I didn't advocate for his death, and would only vote for him if the town was for it - it was my personal feelings and I wasn't going to lynch him over it unless it was a done deal.

...

As for now, I am sticking to my guns and I disagree with duels entirely, so I am voting for Iggy. If the town really wants me to duel, then just even up again - just making my displeasure with it known.

The basic point is that he doesn't trust power roles, and will never trust them until they are proven innocent by death. At this point, he is perfectly happy voting for Ignoramus to save himself. However, he suddenly changes his mind:

Unvote:Ignoramus

I again, do not codone ties. I am positive I will lose, and even if I do win, I'll be killed during the night. This way the mafia will know nothing of Iggy's abilities.

He concludes (without ANY intervening information from Ignoramus) that Ignoramus is more powerful than him and will win the duel. Note that he says he's "positive" he will lose a duel. That's not a term for someone who's unsure, that's a term indicating that he knows he will lose. In addition, despite suddenly concluding, totally spontaneously, that Ignoramus (1) is stronger than him and (2) has abilities that will be shown in a duel, he decides that Ignoramus needs to be defended. Just a few posts before, YLC was saying he wasn't going to trust any power role until it was proven innocent by death. Only a few posts later he's willing to sacrifice himself to keep Ignoramus' info secret? That doesn't make any sense.

After this point, he makes a few posts where he tries to explain that he's voting to avoid dueling, not because he wants Ignoramus dead. YLC then makes another comment about how Ignoramus is more powerful than him:

I don't like duels. I honestly think they hurt the town. I am going to lose to Iggy, so unless Iggy is outright lynched, he goes free. I can prefer myself as much as I want, but if I am to choose between revealing Iggy's fighting style and possible abilities AND dying, or just simply dying, the choice is rather logical, don't you think.

This post very clearly indicates that he believes he will lose a duel to Ignoramus and that the duel will reveal useful information about Ignoramus' fighting ability. Again, Ignoramus has not made any posts about himself in this manner to justify this belief. Sasaki probes him on his beliefs about Ignoramus, and he responds with:

Behavior - he may claim otherwise, but He's virtually absent from mafia until this game and now clings to it. He is doing something or believes he is going to do something - so I suspect whatever rank obtains a lightsaber. I'm an initiate, with 2 avoidance abilities, and no lightsaber skill. The tally is against me anyway period, so there isn't much I can do about - for instance, I can't seem to satisfy Zack with any answer I give him, who doesn't seem to get that I am doing what I think is best for the town based upon what I believe.

Let me put in caps - IGGY IS NOT GETTING LYNCHED, AND I WILL LOSE IN A DUEL, WHICH WILL REVEAL INFORMATION TO THE MAFIA. THE BEST OPTION, DESPITE THE FACT I DO NOT LIKE IT, SO JUST OUTRIGHT DIE. LESSER OF TWO EVILS!

So, YLC believes Ignoramus is high-ranking, and YLC does not trust power roles, but YLC is determined to keep Ignoramus' abilities from being demonstrated to the rest of us. This isn't consistent. If YLC doesn't trust power roles, why is he going out of his way to keep secrets for someone he believes is a power role, particularly when he claims he is going to die either way? The townie movie in that situation is to actually work FOR the duel, so that YLC's death has meaning... providing useful information on Ignoramus as he goes out. Townies exist to die, that's our job. A useful death is the best possible death for a townie.

In addition, the all caps bit is totally weird. Iggy is not getting lynched? Why not? Sounds like YLC thinks he has Force Breath, but no one has said that in the thread.

YLC then makes more comments about Ignoramus' role:

Because I'll lose? I have no idea as to Iggy's role, I just know it is better then mine, because why other would he care? Honestly, really giving up would be simply walking away - I'm not, I'll be here when I'm dead and contribute after.

I've explained myself repeatedly, again, and again. No one is satisfied with what I have to say and is actively against my opinion. I've said I am doomed no matter what I do, at least that is what I believe in. I'd rather go with the least damage done to the town.

In this post we see a few things. First, further affirmation that (1) YLC has no idea what role Ignoramus has, but (2) YLC knows he will lose a duel (no maybes in this statement, it's very certain), (3) Ignoramus has a strong role because of his interest in remaining in the game, and (4) Ignoramus is pro-town. That's a ton of information to know about Ignoramus, for someone who doesn't know his role. This last one is also new. Why doesn't YLC find Ignoramus' desire to keep the game going as suspicious as the rest of us? He's interpreting Ignoramus' post as proof that he is pro-town, as demonstrated by the statement that if Ignoramus' ability are shown in the duel it will "damage . . . the town." Despite these very specific statements and heavy defense of Ignoramus, he then does a 180 and goes after him again:

Vote: Ignoramus

14/13, Iggy.

He then flips back to being an altruist and tried to defend Ignoramus again:

I thought I explained this...I do not know Iggys' role, but I know mine, and thus I put my life abve his and if given the opportunity will vote for Iggy if Iggy is to be lynched. My reasoning for insuring that I die instead of tying it up is because that'd reveal more information to the Sith, which I do not want to do, and in which a duel I know Iggy will win.

Again, he claims he doesn't know Ignoramus' role, but knows he will lose. He's way too certain about this for someone who has no idea about Ignoramus' role. In addition, he's once again trying to 'sacrifice' himself for the sake of someone he believes to be a strong role... even though he doesn't trust pro-town roles?

At this point, Ignoramus re-appears and claims to have a power role. This confirms YLC's totally random guess that Ignoramus was stronger and had a power role of some sort. This is Perfect Information Syndrome.

So, in summary:
1) YLC appears to have Perfect Information Syndrome with regard to Ignoramus' role (belief that he is strong, and that he has Force Breath)
2) YLC contradicts himself by stating repeatedly that he does not trust power roles, but then goes far, far out of his way to defend Ignoramus
3) YLC does not find anything suspicious about Ignoramus whatsoever, and accepts (without any proof) that Ignoramus is not only powerful, but pro-town.
4) YLC waffles on his votes between sparing Ignoramus and sparing himself.

Conclusion: YLC is scum and is likely defending his scum partner.

[Seon]

@ Renata, Sigurd, and Andres: XD.

[pevergreen]

pever would prefer YLC die over Ig.

Vote: YLC

[God Emperor]

In case my vote isn't currently on YLC

Unvote; Vote: YLC

[Kagemusha]

For now vote: dcmort93. Im not sure if either of the top candidates is guilty. The current situation is too chaotic for my tastes. We have to rally around pevergreen and start making informed decisions, instead of shooting at the dark randomly.

[Csargo]

I'd rather shoot at pever randomly

[Kagemusha]

I'd rather shoot at pever randomly

Whats your beef with him?

[Csargo]

I don't like the situation we are in with him. He holds all the information, which is annoying.

[Andres]

Sith Lord: "Hi, I'm an evil Sith and I'm going to kill you and that guy with SITH written all over him is my master. Lynch me or you're doomed!"
Jedi: "No! We're going to lynch that guy over there!"
Sith Lord: "But he's but a simple Jedi Initiate, surely you wish to lynch ME, who is here to cut you in little pieces..."
Jedi: "Nope, we're going to lynch the Jedi Initiate because he said something and now he says something that seems different."
Sith Lord: But I'm evil and I want to be lynched


So, the general consensus is to leave Sigurd, who is dressed like a Sith, has Sith eyes and who has "Dark Lord of the Sith" written above his evil looking avatar and his apprentice Andres, who looks as evil as his master, with his Sith costume and Sith eyes, off the hook, and to lynch some poor guy based on the combination of a few vague asumptions and "analysis"?

Who am I to disagree

Unvote ; Vote : YLC

[Sigurd]

Assuming TinCow is spot on in his analysis we should lynch Ignoramus who is the Dark Lord of the Sith and has not Force Breath to save him another day. While his new apprentice YLC does have force breath and will live yet another day. Lynch Ignoramus and then block/vig YLC.

[Andres]

Assuming TinCow is spot on in his analysis we should lynch Ignoramus who is the Dark Lord of the Sith and has not Force Breath to save him another day. While his new apprentice YLC does have force breath and will live yet another day. Lynch Ignoramus and then block/wig YLC.

I didn't know YLC was bald.

[TinCow]

Assuming TinCow is spot on in his analysis

[pevergreen]

I don't like the situation we are in with him. He holds all the information, which is annoying.

Bad strawberry.

I saw some big posts, from you, don't worry, I ignored them.

[Renata]

For now vote: dcmort93. Im not sure if either of the top candidates is guilty. The current situation is too chaotic for my tastes. We have to rally around pevergreen and start making informed decisions, instead of shooting at the dark randomly.

And in case that wasn't clear:



This *is* an informed decision, whether it's correct or not. It's almost like you expect power roles and a pro-town locus to do all the work for us and not face deliberate misinformation in doing so. In an askthepizzaguy game. Which is based on a Sigurd game.

What are you smoking, Kagemusha?

(No offense, really, just a little cranky this morning.)

[Renata]

Assuming TinCow is spot on in his analysis we should lynch Ignoramus who is the Dark Lord of the Sith and has not Force Breath to save him another day. While his new apprentice YLC does have force breath and will live yet another day. Lynch Ignoramus and then block/wig YLC.

Disagree -- PIS from a Sith who knows that Ignoramus is not one (hence his behavior adequately explained by being *town* power -- would be indistinguishable in behavior from what TinCow has flagged, I think. YLC could have switched to voting himself for a time just out of hope his altruism would get him some town brownie points.

I am also suspicious of Ignoramus, but I think there are more pointers to YLC being squirrelly right now than to Ignoramus being so; and no necessary connection between the guilt of one and the guilt or innocence of the other.

[Kagemusha]

And in case that wasn't clear:



This *is* an informed decision, whether it's correct or not. It's almost like you expect power roles and a pro-town locus to do all the work for us and not face deliberate misinformation in doing so. In an askthepizzaguy game. Which is based on a Sigurd game.

What are you smoking, Kagemusha?

(No offense, really, just a little cranky this morning.)

I dont know why i am scratching you always from wrong side in any game i play with you, but to answer you, Marlboro lights, thats what i smoke.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I dont know why i am scratching you always from wrong side in any game i play with you, but to answer you, Marlboro lights, thats what i smoke.

So you're trying to say that her suggestion is invalid because she always thinks you're scummy?

[Andres]

So you're trying to say that her suggestion is invalid because she always thinks you're scummy?

You can't expect him to make sense, he smokes Marlboro light

A pity we can only lynch one player at a time.

[Kagemusha]

No im just saying that she does not like me as a person, nothing else. My opinion is that we have to gather our forces, which pever is doing a good job already by cross checking people.

[pevergreen]

No im just saying that she does not like me as a person, nothing else. My opinion is that we have to gather our forces, which pever is doing a good job already by cross checking people.

Don't expect miracles.

[Kagemusha]

Don't expect miracles.

There might be as much dis information, as information, but still the force ghost is another tool to use to hunt down the mafia.