Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[a completely inoffensive name]

Also, lol two Sith factions. More like, the Yuuzhan Vong in disguise. There, I said what everyone has been thinking already.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm not debating the question of whether Beskar should be lynched right now. There is merit to the idea of keeping Beskar alive as a known Sith for at least a short period, to prevent someone else from being recruited. While there are significant risks and complications for such a plan, the plan is legitimate and worth considering. What I am debating is Sasaki's statement that some people voting for Beskar without reason (notably, Zack) are scummy for doing so. Andres protested this, and I agree with Andres. While I agree with Sasaki that Sith are likely to support a Beskar lynch here, Beskar is so clearly scum that it is perfectly legit for townies to lodge votes on him as well without any commentary. Such votes are regular when someone is 'confirmed' scum, (it happened several times during my lynch) and I think it is utterly impossible to separate a Sith vote on Beskar from a townie vote. As such, I believe this discussion is useless WIFOM that distracts from far better cases.

Well, on what basis do you think it is utterly impossible to tell a sith vote from a townie vote, simply because they are legitimate? We have caught scum in the past based on their reactions to such confirmed lynches, in fact your case on YLC was on his reaction towards the "confirmed" guilty on you. It isn't always accurate mind you.

[God Emperor]

Possibly, it may violate game rules and ethic rules.

But theres currently some bad info going around. Two people giving me info about sigurd, it conflicts.

Do I understand this right? ; There are two different stories about Sigurd which contradicts one another? If so then there is imo only one way to deal with it. If you believe he is guilty and you will push for him to be lynched, then reveal the information that contradicts. If he is going to die, then we might just as well know what this information is, that we can give him a last trial so to speak.

On a related note, God Emperor is far too silent for my taste. You here?

yes I am sorry, I have not been very active in this game so far. It's that chesscube, among other things I will try and have that changed


For the vote. I would have placed it on Chaotix if it wasn't for the massive bandwagons on Sigurd, Ignoramus and Beskar. Chaotix seems to almost intentionally lay low with no aggresive posts that would put focus on himself. The day when Rebel Jeb claimed that Tincow was scum, then Chaotix was sure that he would go after Jeb if Tincow didn't turn up mafia. Tincow wasn't mafia but Chaotix completely ignored his previous statement the next day, when there seemed to be an agreement that Jeb wasn't necessarily scum. Sorry I didn't find the quotes from him, but I can find them if need be.

since there are this bandwagons the vote should be placed on either of the 3, to make the best out of it.

Sigurd: apparently some lead against him? I wouldn't go for him until the people accusing him can be more sure of the lynch

Beskar: An easy lynch, but.. perhaps too easy?

Ignoramus: Claims to be very important, but he has not showed what makes him so important? Claims to have force breath.

So let's see. I would prefer if one of them got lynched, the other one nighted killed. If Ignoramus has force breath, then a night kill on him would save some time. I don't think Beskar claimed force breath(?) , anyway Beskar seems to struggle for not getting lynched. Being a sith I would say that is a good sign.

Vote: Beskar

[God Emperor]

I'm not debating the question of whether Beskar should be lynched right now. There is merit to the idea of keeping Beskar alive as a known Sith for at least a short period, to prevent someone else from being recruited. .

Are we certain there can only be 1 apprentice at a time? if Yes, then I will have my vote switched to ignoramus

[TinCow]

Well, on what basis do you think it is utterly impossible to tell a sith vote from a townie vote, simply because they are legitimate? We have caught scum in the past based on their reactions to such confirmed lynches, in fact your case on YLC was on his reaction towards the "confirmed" guilty on you. It isn't always accurate mind you.

The difference in my mind with the YLC/Ignoramus situation was that we were looking for people who were going against what was expected of a townie. In this situation, I find it very believable that a townie would vote for Beskar without much, if any, explanation. So, there's no 'deviation' to detect. If I'm missing someone, please do correct me. This could just be a disagreement about how likely townies are to vote Beskar without comment.

[Beskar]

Are we certain there can only be 1 apprentice at a time? if Yes, then I will have my vote switched to ignoramus

Rule of Two. There can only be two Sith (Master and Apprentice) at the same time. Obviously, if there are other Sith factions, they would have their own rule of two...

How many other factions do you think there are? Do you think they are identical to your own (i.e. multiple teams of two Sith) or do they appear to be different in some manner?

I don't have enough information at this time. When we have killed one of them, we might learn some more. But yeah, getting killed night one by another Sith faction was unpleasant.

[TinCow]

Are we certain there can only be 1 apprentice at a time? if Yes, then I will have my vote switched to ignoramus

The only evidence of that that I have seen came from Beskar, which is not a trustworthy source (no offense, Beskar). Beyond that, the assumption rests on the fact that the game is based on Sigurd's original version, which limited the Sith to two members at once. I think it's impossible for us to determine at this point whether ATPG has preserved that here.

[God Emperor]

Unvote; Vote: Ignoramus

We might very well discover later if further recruitment is possible, by studying the writeups there are to come.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The difference in my mind with the YLC/Ignoramus situation was that we were looking for people who were going against what was expected of a townie. In this situation, I find it very believable that a townie would vote for Beskar without much, if any, explanation. So, there's no 'deviation' to detect. If I'm missing someone, please do correct me. This could just be a disagreement about how likely townies are to vote Beskar without comment.

Chaotix and Zack did not react how I expected town to. "a townie" might very well vote beskar with no explanation--perhaps seon is one (the person zack complained I didn't suspect). But I believe I said something about expecting zack to be wordier given his previous posting habits.

Just for my own records...sasaki's kill list:
ignoramus
zack
chaotix
beskar
classical hero
sigurd

[TinCow]

I believe I said something about expecting zack to be wordier given his previous posting habits.

Ah, that's an aspect that I missed. If that's the case (have not done a re-read on Zack), then I withdraw my objection.

[Nightbringer]

Because he is.

Vote:Ignoramus

yes it is certainly possible, but all i can see against him is a powerful bandwagon. what evidence is there. it is possible he resurrected beskar because it would distract people from killing him, but is that not also possible of other people, who have acted much more scummy like dcmort.

as to sigurd, i really have to ask to hear what the information is before i can just blindly place my vote on him. im sorry pever but while i do trust you more than most i cant blindly follow. ATPG has had disguised badguys before (andross in star fox game). plus, without some kind of a catch to you force-ghost would seem too safe a person to trust for pizza to allow.

about Beskar, i think we can allow him to live for the time being, we know his name and if he kills any townies we can just lynch him off no problem. i agree that we shouldent let him live for too long though or he will rank up.

can someone point me to the non bandwagon case against zack as well, i think there was one, i juts dont know where.

[classical_hero]

Vote: Ignoramus

Sigurd is a bad choice.

Why should we listen to you?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why should we listen to you?

Good point, classical hero.

[Diamondeye]

If you wanna know more, I gotta know more about you.

You [as well as everyone else who's been reading the thread] know my force powers. I am an initiate, so I have no lightsaber or lightsaber training. Adding a name to that is a formality as the Sith will have cover names, and as my name has never come up in the thread (I haven't been attacked or lynched).

Vote: Sigurd

As I said before:
I. Must. Obey. My. Master.

HoS: Jarema

It wouldn't be a good idea to have a former Sith playing for the Jedi later on in the game, regardless of restrictions in the new role pm.

In fact, it doesn't make any sense to have a mechanic that converts mafia to town in a mafia game where you have a minority of scum and a majority of town that needs to find out who the few scumbags are. It just doesn't make any sense at all to have a former mafiosi playing for town.

And yes, I could be wrong and there could be some weird, strange game mechanic and a twist invented by a creative host and all that, but most of the time, the most simple explanation is the correct one.

In short: Beskar is a resurrected Sith so there's 99 % probability that he's scum. And that's exactly why I'm interested to know why Sasaki of all people does not want to see Beskar lynched. Being a replacement is no guarantee for being innocent, so Sasaki should be watched as closely as any other player.

This. I'd say Beskar's the best lynch today, I think. Certainly better than Ignoramus.

Point of fact; it's not "townie instinct" because Beskar has been confirmed as Sith by the host, and has also stated that, after being revived, he is still Sith. Beskar, by his own words, says there are currently two Sith alive, and he is one of them:

I know you know this (and you commented it in a later post), but just to spell it out; Don't take anything a sith says for good wares.

I love bandwagons, have I told you guys that the Giants are my favorite baseball team? Also my favorite football team is the team that won the last Super Bowl. Vote; Siggy, Sigurd's alter ego who I suspect is really in control for the duration of this game.

BUT FoS: Renata. Home renovation? You know who also did a lot of home renovation? Darth Sideous. He had to pick out warm colors for every single bathroom on the Death Star, and there is only so many Earth tones to choose from before getting repetitive since there must have been thousands of bathrooms on that super structure. Now I am not saying that you have the same terrible taste as him (all metal with no drywall?), but what I am saying is that Jedi appreciate the world around them and Sith want to change the world around them including that ugly shade of green paint that has been in the dining room since the house was built in 1974.

I think we have more scum then we realize gentleman. I've got a bad feeling about this.

If I was a vigilante you'd die tonight. You are not helping the town at all with this post, and every single reply you make is another muddling and confusing statement to the pile. On top of that, you've claimed Force Breath - seemingly without reason.
AoS: ACIN

Do I understand this right? ; There are two different stories about Sigurd which contradicts one another? If so then there is imo only one way to deal with it. If you believe he is guilty and you will push for him to be lynched, then reveal the information that contradicts. If he is going to die, then we might just as well know what this information is, that we can give him a last trial so to speak.

yes I am sorry, I have not been very active in this game so far. It's that chesscube, among other things I will try and have that changed

For the vote. I would have placed it on Chaotix if it wasn't for the massive bandwagons on Sigurd, Ignoramus and Beskar. Chaotix seems to almost intentionally lay low with no aggresive posts that would put focus on himself. The day when Rebel Jeb claimed that Tincow was scum, then Chaotix was sure that he would go after Jeb if Tincow didn't turn up mafia. Tincow wasn't mafia but Chaotix completely ignored his previous statement the next day, when there seemed to be an agreement that Jeb wasn't necessarily scum. Sorry I didn't find the quotes from him, but I can find them if need be.

since there are this bandwagons the vote should be placed on either of the 3, to make the best out of it.

Sigurd: apparently some lead against him? I wouldn't go for him until the people accusing him can be more sure of the lynch

Beskar: An easy lynch, but.. perhaps too easy?

Ignoramus: Claims to be very important, but he has not showed what makes him so important? Claims to have force breath.

So let's see. I would prefer if one of them got lynched, the other one nighted killed. If Ignoramus has force breath, then a night kill on him would save some time. I don't think Beskar claimed force breath(?) , anyway Beskar seems to struggle for not getting lynched. Being a sith I would say that is a good sign.

Vote: Beskar

Where did Ignoramus claim Force Breath? Did I miss that post?
Also, you should change your vote. Lynching Ignoramus is not as good as lynching Beskar.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

fos:diamondeye

Think I see what renata was saying.

[dcmort93]

@sasaki
Zack's posts would be short as he's pulling out of all games after he finishes the ones currently running (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...postcount=1155)
Also on another note I'll Unvote Zack; Vote Seon you've been hitting me as rather suspicious recently and I would apparently know all about that

[Diamondeye]

fos:diamondeye

Think I see what renata was saying.

What're you getting at?

[Ignoramus]

Ignoramus: Claims to be very important, but he has not showed what makes him so important? Claims to have force breath.

Where have I claimed to have Force Breath?

FoS God Emperor

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote, vote:beskar

hmm, ignoramus is feeling like a bit too easy of a target atm.

[Frozen In Ice]

pever if your info against Sigurd doesn't break any rules then you should go ahead and tell us it, leaving out any names if need be. Until then I recommend that we don't lynch Sigurd because this could easily be another misunderstanding.

[God Emperor]

Where have I claimed to have Force Breath?

FoS God Emperor

It wasn't you who claimed it? but there were one other besides Diamondeye that claimed that ability wasn't there?
So let's say I am wrong, and you didn't claim that ability after all. What does it tell you? I don't see how this points towards being scummy, so could you tell me if there is a reasoning behind the FOS? To me it seems like you are most of all just trying to appear active scum hunter, but perhaps I am wrong :)

[Sprig]

Besker: be helpful before we kill you again, which kills were your masters?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ignoramus: (13) Sprig, robbiecon, choxorn, CBlackadder, Khazaar, Ibn-Khaldun, Diana Abnoba, Beskar, Sigurd, Psychonaut, Ironside, Csargo, God Emperor

Sigurd: (10) pevergreen, Beefy187, DIY, Yaropolk, Autolycus, classical_hero, Diamondeye, Jarema, Seon, ACIN,

Beskar: (9) Jarema, Ignoramus, Zack, Frozen in ice, johnhughthom, Chaotix, Warman, Joooray, Sasaki Kojiro,

dcmort: (1) Nightbringer

Seon: (1) dcmort

Sasaki: (1) Andres



Please point out any mistakes you see.

[Ignoramus]

Unvote: Beskar
Vote: Sigurd

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote, vote:ignoramus

[Zack]

@sasaki
Zack's posts would be short as he's pulling out of all games after he finishes the ones currently running ([B][COLOR=Indigo]http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...postcount=1155)

This. I'm only useful as an additional lynch vote for the town, really. I'm fine if you vig me, I can't keep up with it anyway.

[Ignoramus]

unvote, vote:ignoramus

Sasaki, what's your grudge against me?

[Beskar]

Ignoramus comes to save himself, his Sith gambit of reviving me failed.

[Ignoramus]

Ignoramus comes to save himself, his Sith gambit of reviving me failed.

If I was Sith, why would I bother posting? Look how many people who have hardly posted who have not fallen under even the slightest of suspicions. And of course I'd try and keep myself alive, especially seeing I can be other great use to the town.

[Sprig]

If I was Sith, why would I bother posting? Look how many people who have hardly posted who have not fallen under even the slightest of suspicions. And of course I'd try and keep myself alive, especially seeing I can be other great use to the town.

How? I would love to learn more.

Ignoramus comes to save himself, his Sith gambit of reviving me failed.

Convince me that there is two sith factions. Reveal which kills came from yours!

If you want to kill the 'other' Sith group, I am very keen to help you. But I need the tools/ infomation to do so.