Did Zeus never teach Athena to have some tolerance with Muslims?

**Kagemusha** · 11-24-2010, 15:14

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Well that's just wrong. Violence IS glory. Ever hear any tales of glorious manners and etiquette? We may be dealing with a translation issue here but words like glory, valor, and honor incorporate violence into their code. The difference is in how it's used.

Relating back to Islam: Violence is, inherent in the system; however, the system matters less than the people in it as proven in this incident.

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation or soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

**Vladimir** · 11-24-2010, 17:39

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation on soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

Your post reminded me of a Top Gear episode where they explained sisu.

I suppose that is a non-violent glory in that no one is seriously hurt but the cars sure took a beating.

**rory_20_uk** · 11-24-2010, 17:52

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation on soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

I've met the "hero" who tried to stand up to a mugger and got stabbed as I assisted in repairing his intestines.
I treated the "hero" who tried to placate two having an argument and required stitches when a mate of theirs smacked him round the head with a piece of wood.

Those glorifying heroic events were often never anywhere near them. It's often been said that the victors never have glorious victories as they are the ones who have had a good look at the battlefield afterwards.

Similarly Loyalty was a tremedous premium in Medieval Japan as almost no one was.

**Kagemusha** · 11-24-2010, 18:04

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Your post reminded me of a Top Gear episode where they explained sisu.

I suppose that is a non-violent glory in that no one is seriously hurt but the cars sure took a beating.

Yes.Sisu is bit hard concept to translate. I guess it is some odd mixture of being stubborn against odds and not minding any kind of set backs, still retaining your integrity, while the result could still be a failure. Hard thing to translate.

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I've met the "hero" who tried to stand up to a mugger and got stabbed as I assisted in repairing his intestines.
I treated the "hero" who tried to placate two having an argument and required stitches when a mate of theirs smacked him round the head with a piece of wood.

Those glorifying heroic events were often never anywhere near them. It's often been said that the victors never have glorious victories as they are the ones who have had a good look at the battlefield afterwards.

Similarly Loyalty was a tremedous premium in Medieval Japan as almost no one was.

I agree completely.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 11-24-2010, 20:07

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Yes.Sisu is bit hard concept to translate. I guess it is some odd mixture of being stubborn against odds and not minding any kind of set backs, still retaining your integrity, while the result could still be a failure. Hard thing to translate.

Perseverance?