Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Chaotix]

unvote, vote: robbiecon

Somebody tell me what I missed. Something about a scan result on Joooray?

I understand editing the posts was for sensitive information, but you could at least say the nature of such info. Otherwise this looks (to my ignorant eyes) like an edited scum post.

Also, keep in mind that asking them to reveal who they've attacked will be giving information to the Sith. If they can link players with role names, they can figure out what their possible defenses are and try to bypass them.

[Diana Abnoba]

Vote: Joooray I think he is a Dark Jedi.

[God Emperor]

well the edit in the post doesn't really change anything. It should have been handled differently. I don't think there is much to do about it now...

About the reveal of night kills.. you make a good point but here are my thoughts : learning about who their nightly targets were tell us at least two important things; 1, how we certain we can be of telling the night killers from each other , 2, how many kills it takes for people to turn dark jedi (If that is indeed what night kills do to them). If that is the way Dark Jedi are created, then it is of utmost importance that we sieze control of the situation as quickly as possible.

If our grandmaster is a dark Jedi, as suspected by many , then I think it is a good idea to have him removed. I don't know what the grandmaster role does , but I would believe it is a strong role to have.

In other words; If Joooray is a dark Jedi, and we know many kills it took for him to become one, then we will most likely see that Ignormarus has become a dark Jedi as well. However his situation should be treated differently than Joooray's. my innitial idea was that he is good to keep alive. To have an option to perform night kills without a jedi turning to dark jedi is a good thing. we are severely weakened by each dark jedi created, so the goal is to keep that at a minimum. That is why I also hope that every remaining Jedi will stop performing actions, or picking abilities, that could lead to rage and anger.

I believe the sith already would have a good idea of what techniques the dark jedi/ vigilante are using, (mafia's usually knows a lot more) , so I wouldn't fear too much about that part.


I hope the above makes sense.. Because it seems to me we quickly could be overrun if we do not organize night kills and control the creation of dark Jedi

[pevergreen]

I didn't read robbie's post, but he is being fairly stubborn, so I'll roll a die.

6 sides, 6 vigilantes to choose from. Oh what fun.

[Ironside]

... Chaotix, let me pull away that shovel so you can't dig yourself any deeper.

I won't even deign to respond to this, Sith scum.

Are everyone that have voted for you sith or dark jedi then? How convenient for you, that you'll never need to dignify an answer to your own words.

Your logic's full of holes,

Then enlighten us with your wisdom, ohh mighty one. With one swift stroke, show your innocence for the town, instead of hiding behind emty words. I've not given anything outside what's been in plain sight of the thread.

you're trying to create discord in the town,

On the contrary, I'm trying to create discord among all factions so my master can win. What's the best way to do this? By telling the truth. The number of vigilante attacks are now higher than the sith attacks. That means that the dark jedi are currently a larger threat than the sith for the town. Thus the best move for the jedi is to kill off a few of the dark jedi to keep their numbers and threat level down.
Simply focusing on the sith will give the victory to the dark jedi, thus a loss for the town (well a draw technically). But you would like that as a dark jedi would you not?

and on top of that you're just wrong.

Such as?

It's an educated guess, so it might be wrong at some places. Using mind reading on ATPG didn't work and kidnapping him takes too much effort. That means guesses are the best shot, in particular since bringing any intelligence gathering results is definitly going to be rejected.

In case the town wonders why Chaotix isn't dead yet, have mr purple saber (my original thought, him being the dark one didn't come up until after that complete defense of random vigi Igno) been more useful for the town or the sith for most of the game?

[Chaotix]

Pfft. You just told the town you're trying to create discord and you're not working in the town's interests.

If it was at all in doubt before, which is unlikely since you're a confirmed Sith, then you have removed it.

I'm going to take the same route I did with Beskar: just ignore him and he will go away.

[Yaropolk]

You should lynch Jooray...if he's a Jedi we get an invincible pro-town force ghost who can still vote. If he's a dark jedi, you take him out.

[pevergreen]

You should lynch Jooray...if he's a Jedi we get an invincible pro-town force ghost who can still vote. If he's a dark jedi, you take him out.

Says who?

Everyone I know of that has force ghost just got killed.

You people should listen to me when I say to not lynch someone. You killed the chosen one.

[Frozen In Ice]

It is possible that Jooray is a dark jedi: I keep coming back to that "not quite a sith lord" comment. However, looking at the deaths the past few nights, there doesn't seem to be any that we can attribute to him. He doesn't seem to be killing, and he is obviously powerful, so I think he is more helpful to the townie cause alive than dead to be perfectly honest.

5 attemts? Ouch, we realy need to get that down. Vote: Ignoramus

Instead I agree with ArpeggiateTHIS, this seems very scummy to me. Vote: Greyblades

[Cecil XIX]

Sasaki is Sith. Allow me to explain.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230240

Sasaki starts by stating that there are a lot of suspicious people who voted to lynch WEW. Indeed, it is true that many of those who voted for him have been brought up as possible Sith. Nightbringer, Joooray, Diana, WEW, Chaotix and Ignoramus have all had a good deal of suspicion brought upon, justified or not. That's a fair amount people. But rather than urging us to go after them and try to clear the air, he specifically mentions myself and Arpeg, neither of whom had had more than two votes in a single day cast on us for the whole game. This muddles the waters, and gives the Jedi more suspicious people to divide their attention between. Between the two of us he goes after me, showing that out of all the players who have never been killed, I had the least posts.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230242

He quotes all of my posts thus far, and concludes that I have been acting suspiciously. What he does not do is vote against me, or indeed anyone. One could reasonably assume this means that he simply doesn't believe the evidence is quite strong enough to justify a lynching. But not only will he vote against me later without any further encouragement, he doesn't even FoS me after going to all that trouble and concluding I'm suspicious. This is because he intends to get me lynched while minimizing the likelyhood that he gets blamed for it.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230254
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230255

He waits for someone else to cast the first vote against me, then within an hour he casts the second one to get the bandwagon started, after going to the defense against the only other person who has been suggested as a lynch candidate. Then he leaves on the hope that others he has convinced will build up the bandwagon for him. Once gets some people to agree with him, he's already beginning to cover his tracks.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230257

Notice how he did not FoS me, even though he went to the trouble of looking up my posts and found me suspicious, but he FoS'd Nightbringer for agreeing with him and changing his vote. Now he withdraws so the bandwagon can develop without him being visible. His next post is some thirteen hours later.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230471

There is no logic hear, only a forceful attempt to stop someone else from getting lynched instead of me now that the bandwagon against Diamondeye has gained strength. He's banking on his reputation there, as well he should. Now for the next post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230542

This is posted under the guise of a joke, but what's the truth upon which this joke rests? It's the feeling of helplessness because the town is seemingly robbed of two of it's best tools for rooting out mafia. But how likely is that? This post is designed to demoralize the Jedi and keep them second-guessing themselves and each other, a seed of doubt that he will come back to water later. His next post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230594

He asks Nightbringer if he has Force Breath because he wants the town to believe it is more common then it really is and because Nightbringer, who had recently come under suspicion from the town, will not want to flat out deny having force breath nor will he want to confirm it when he's not under immediate threat, as that would be scummy. The rest is to remove the doubt against someone who's close to me in the tally. His next vote is particularly telling.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230604

Sasaki removes his vote on me, and with it removes his fingerprints from my lynching. Although he was not the first vote against me, nor did he vote to lynch in the final tally, make no mistake: Sasaki Kojiro is more responsible for my being lynched than anyone else. But he knew that it would be best if people did not think he was responsible for lynching the Chosen One, so he took these step. Next:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230610

Sasaki continues to make jokes, although this one is more gallows humor, about how investigations don't seem to be very useful so as to make the town doubt any successful investigations. Soon, with most people having voted and my lead larger than ever, Sasaki moves on to other things. He only works against me one more time in, here, to make sure people don't forget that I'm a scummy lurker.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230808

Some will say that although I criticized Sasaki for further muddying the waters by going after me, who hitherto had not gotten much attention from the town, I am guilty of this myself for accusing Sasaki. This is not true. There have been grumblings against Sasaki, more than you think by simplye examining how many votes he's received. But most importantly, Sasaki's case rested on my inaction; my general lurking. My case rests on what he has actually done. And condemning someone for what he has done is more likely to bear fruit than condemning someone for what he has not done.

Others who have paid special attention will note the Sasaki is a replacement. How likely is it that someone couldn't muster up the interest to play a Sith? This is a good point, but it can explained. First of all, the fact that Sasaki's predecessor had himself replaced, rather than let himself be WoGed, suggests he was paying some attention. What's more telling is when you look at how many attacks we've had each night.

Night One : Five Attackers
Night Two : Two Attackers
Night Three : Five Attackers
Night Four : Three Attackers
Night Five : Four Attackers (The first night Sasaki is able to send in orders)
Night Six : Six Attackers
Night Seven : Six Attackers
Night Eight : Five Attackers
Night Nine : Four Attackers
Night Ten : Five Attackers
Night Eleven: Five Attackers

Before Sasaki rejoined, we averaged 3.75 attackers per night. Since his return we've been averaging five, and set a new record at six. This change suggests that Sasaki did indeed replace someone who night-killing abilities, and the rest of my evidence leads one to conclude that he is not pro-town.

Why me? Being Sith, Sasaki must have some investigation skills. He must have scanned me and realized that I was the Chosen One, destined to bring balance to the Force by destroying all those who do not follow the Light Side. Thus it was only natural that a Sith should take a personal effort to target me.

If this argument is too long, then I apologize. But Sasaki has done many suspicious things, and skillfully enough that I must spend time warding off counterarguments before they occur. Sasaki's drawing up a case against me, without so much as an FoS, while waiting for another to make the first move, not staying with my lynch and repeated attempts to spread malaise paint a clear picture. He is scum.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Chaotix]

I would say at this point, lynching Joooray is a bad idea. Thinking about it over the past couple of days has made me change my mind.

Basically, this is our situation:

There is the town, there are the Sith, and there are any number of Dark Jedi.

The Sith are out to kill us. Period. The Sith are also clearly out to kill the Dark Jedi.

The Dark Jedi just want to survive. They are Neutral. Since the Sith are trying to kill the Dark Jedi as well, right now their best chance of survival is to team up with the town.

And if the town and the Dark Jedi get rid of the Sith together, they have both satisfied their victory conditions.

But if we lynch one Dark Jedi, if we take the policy that Dark Jedi should die, then we turn a potential ally into a certain enemy. There is no way any Dark Jedi will want to help the town if we start killing them- they're out for survival, so they'll basically become a bunch of serial killers we have to deal with.


So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

[pevergreen]

So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

True, but anyone can become one.

Are you one?

[autolycus]

Cecil XIX's analysis makes sense to me. vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Chaotix]

True, but anyone can become one.

Are you one?

Not altogether true. One needs to be able to kill in order to become a Dark Jedi, and not everybody will gain the lightsaber kill ability. Essentially, I guess that means all vigilantes can become Dark Jedi.

And I don't know why you ask, but I am a Jedi.

[Chaotix]

Ugh double post.

I meant to change my vote as well. I'm going to follow the Chosen One's ideas for now. That and apparently whatever robbiecon did it wasn't bad.

Unvote, Vote: Sasaki

[ByzantineKnight]

Vote: Autolycus, FOS: Chaotix

[Cecil XIX]

Vote: Autolycus, FOS: Chaotix

What's so suspicious about agreeing with me?

[naut]

Has Joooray been scanned? What does that even really mean? We've been down this route three times already and our fingers have been burned by it every time. On top of that is Ironside saying he's "EVIL", that's reason enough to not go after him. Nope, not buying it, not doing this again.

vote: Diamondeye

He should have gone last round, he's been interacting weirdly, posting scummily and acting inconsistent.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Diamondeye

Just about done caring about this game.

[Seon]

Diamondeye or Sasaki...

Eenie meenie mine moe, catch your tiger by the toe, never ever let go, eenie meenie minie moe.

Vote: sasaki.

[wideyedwanderer]

5 attemts? Ouch, we realy need to get that down. Vote: Ignoramus

Ooooohhh really??? Is that what we should do? Lower the amount of kill attempts? Gee, thanks for letting us know. FoS: Greyblades.

about^
what do you think guys, he is sith, but it is actually a coherent case, where everything else is pretty much guess work.
im not going to follow it, but i think it is worth investigating on our own.

and the sith motivation to do this does make sense, the dark jedi have a lot of abilities compared to average townies most likely, so the sith would want them gone because they are a threat. but this does bring up the question of how much we want them gone. i think maybe we could come to an agreement with the dark jedi and try to work together against the sith, if they refuse, then we can try following this lead.


of course, it could easily all be fabrication, he is bringing up a couple of apparently powerful jedi, and ti could just be a ploy to get us to vote one of them off.

im definitely not advocating following this plan, but i do think we should use our own information to investigate it.

This post seemed forced, and, as someone else said, it sounded almost as if you were waiting to respond to Ironside's post.

I would say at this point, lynching Joooray is a bad idea. Thinking about it over the past couple of days has made me change my mind.

Basically, this is our situation:

There is the town, there are the Sith, and there are any number of Dark Jedi.

The Sith are out to kill us. Period. The Sith are also clearly out to kill the Dark Jedi.

The Dark Jedi just want to survive. They are Neutral. Since the Sith are trying to kill the Dark Jedi as well, right now their best chance of survival is to team up with the town.

And if the town and the Dark Jedi get rid of the Sith together, they have both satisfied their victory conditions.

But if we lynch one Dark Jedi, if we take the policy that Dark Jedi should die, then we turn a potential ally into a certain enemy. There is no way any Dark Jedi will want to help the town if we start killing them- they're out for survival, so they'll basically become a bunch of serial killers we have to deal with.


So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

Spoken like a Dark Jedi.

Cecil XIX's analysis makes sense to me. vote: Sasaki Kojiro

It makes sense? Whether it makes sense or not, you seem very willing to go with the flow.

Nightbringer behaves scummy...but that doesn't mean he's scum. I'll continue to keep my eye on him but for now I think there are better candidates.

Joooray, I think, needs to go. He may just be a dark jedi, but seriously, there were 5 attempts last night. We can't let our leader off the hook with that kind of performance just because he might be helping us.



But the person I'm most worried about right now is Vote: Diana Abnoba. Busy or not, she could easily be scum, so she better defend herself. She's been allowed to slip under the radar for too long now.

[Seon]

I forgot to unvote didn't I?

......

Sooooooo many choices!!!

Unvote: Khazaar

Okay, so for the list of suspects we have here...

Ignoramus (although he did kill a Sith a few nights ago)
Greyblades (for that small comment about "oooh let's drop the amount of kill attempts!")
Joooray (for killing an innocent)
Diamondeye (in thread behavior- CLAIMED FORCE BREATH!!!)
Sasaki (see Cecil's massive post)
Diana Abnoba (quiet and lurky as a Sith Lurker)
Khazaar (even more quiet and lurky, but probably just a lurker -_-)
Chaotix (probably a dark jedi)

[Seon]

Oh yeah, I didn't include myself in the list. Deal with it :p

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@cecil: I made a case on you because you were lurking intentionally as you admitted. Then I went after someone I thought was scummier.

We have not successfully lynched sith so far, so pointing out that someone made the case on someone who turned out to be town is very weak--it makes your case on me essentially be that I was scumhunting and thought a townie was scummy.

You say that the person I replaced was paying attention, and then say that the number of kills going up after I replaced him indicates that there is someone new sending orders--but if my predecessor was paying attention he could easily be sending orders.

Complaining about the difficulties of lynching people is not a conspiracy to discourage the town.

I'm going to follow the Chosen One's ideas for now.

Why?

[Beefy187]

Jooray was scanned last night. He is susceptible to the Dark side

[naut]

Jooray was scanned last night. He is susceptible to the Dark side

So was Tincow. And dcmort.

[Beefy187]

So was Tincow. And dcmort.

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

[Cecil XIX]

@cecil: I made a case on you because you were lurking intentionally as you admitted. Then I went after someone I thought was scummier.

You say he was scummier, and yet you provided ample reasons for lynching me and none for him.

We have not successfully lynched sith so far, so pointing out that someone made the case on someone who turned out to be town is very weak--it makes your case on me essentially be that I was scumhunting and thought a townie was scummy.

Who you went after was only a minor point, the crux of the argument is that you went after a townie and took steps to hide your responsibility - an indication of malice aforethought.

You say that the person I replaced was paying attention, and then say that the number of kills going up after I replaced him indicates that there is someone new sending orders--but if my predecessor was paying attention he could easily be sending orders.

I am glad you find the idea that a replacement could be sith so believable. What I said was that he was paying attention in the beginning, but soon found that he could not devote enough time to do as well as he liked. As one who's been in that situation many times myself, I admire him for being willing to give up and have someone more capable replace him.

Complaining about the difficulties of lynching people is not a conspiracy to discourage the town.

Rather it's expressing a truism that is either useless or demoralizing to the town, in either case something you're smart enough to know a townie shouldn't be doing.

[Ignoramus]

I have no idea who to vote for now; I seriously think the town's in trouble. The inability to scan Sith makes scanning almost useless, and there are so many suspicious players that the chances of getting the right one is next to 0.

But as I have to vote:

Vote: Diana Abnoba - still suspicious in my mind.

[pevergreen]

Force ghosts are in the building.