Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Nightbringer]

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

Okay, that sounds like a scan result that finally has something to it, however, i feel pretty sure he cant be the sith lord. a sith lord would be very unlikely to show up as "susceptible," he would be either innocent (protected from scans) or absolute dark side. still, i think it is a good bet that jooray is a new apprentice, or that he has turned to a dark jedi. likely the latter in my opinion.
vote:jooray
If this doesnt turn out to be scum of some kind, im sworn off ever listening to an investigation again.

I do see a lot to agree with in cecil's post about sasaki, but it could also easily be as sasaki argued. i would say he is worth investigation (if that is worth anything) and a careful eye. so fos:sasaki

This post seemed forced, and, as someone else said, it sounded almost as if you were waiting to respond to Ironside's post.

I was basically typing out my internal monologue about this post, since it seemed to have more possible worth to the town than Beskar's posts did.
edit, i was misremembering ironside's post so this part is now gone.

[naut]

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

On N2, it came back saying that TinCow was able to be recruited, and I suspected that the dark side was in him. I figured this meant he was sith, apparently it means he MAY be sith.

Oddly familiar. Scans don't seem to be reliable. Post/in-thread behaviour should be the basis of voting IMHO.

[pevergreen]

Oddly familiar. Scans don't seem to be reliable. Post/in-thread behaviour should be the basis of voting IMHO.

I recall him later saying he read it wrong.

Regardless, its a third varience on that investigation return. However, even without that, we know he has killed, we know he has force lightning, a dark side power.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Force lightning is guaranteed to be a dark side power?

@cecil: I provided reasons for lynching nightbringer. I have pushed lynches on many people this game and so have many other people, so far bunches of townies have been lynched, you are not special--and I doubt anyone would forget that I started the day by quoting all your posts. Other than that, you seem to be conceding that there is no reason to think the person I replaced could have sent in kills so that a rise is evidence of nothing. So it seems your "sasaki is attempting to demoralize the town" conspiracy theory is all you have left.

[Diamondeye]

I'm not going to follow the case on Sasaki; While there is some merit to Cecil's argument (and I am indeed suspicious of Sasaki), I'm not sure it's the best place for my vote. Instead, I'm going with my Kagemusha vote for now.

Also, on Dark Jedi; I think I agree with Chaotix in the assesment that the worst thing we can do at the moment is to force them against us. Then again, just typing this out it fells awfully like he could be a Dark Jedi himself who wants to survive. Nevertheless, his logic is sound - in the current situation.

[Beskar]

Also, on another note: Beskar was right.

Ner ner ner ner.

[Ironside]

I would say at this point, lynching Joooray is a bad idea. Thinking about it over the past couple of days has made me change my mind.

Was that before or after you failed to kill him twice and gave up?

There is the town, there are the Sith, and there are any number of Dark Jedi.

The Sith are out to kill us. Period. The Sith are also clearly out to kill the Dark Jedi.

The Dark Jedi just want to survive. They are Neutral. Since the Sith are trying to kill the Dark Jedi as well, right now their best chance of survival is to team up with the town.

You should read your cover role better. You know that part about ridding the sith, but also the jedi being destroyed. For the town to win, the dark jedi must be destroyed. It's even colour-coded for your convenience.

And if the town and the Dark Jedi get rid of the Sith together, they have both satisfied their victory conditions.

Nope, you'll need to kill off the rest of the jedi as well. It's in the rules. Letting you win would be most utilitarian though, since that would mean that none really lose (if you think I'm lying, the dark jedi are using the correct side of the force after all, they just lack the proper teachings).
But that would be dull wouldn't it?

But if we lynch one Dark Jedi, if we take the policy that Dark Jedi should die, then we turn a potential ally into a certain enemy. There is no way any Dark Jedi will want to help the town if we start killing them- they're out for survival, so they'll basically become a bunch of serial killers we have to deal with.

Since they already act as serial killers, that wouldn't exactly change much. Random killings have been more effective than the alliance you've got with pever. Random killings also have serial killer written all over it.

So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

Of course you would. But since the dark jedi can never win being on the side of the jedi, they can never be on the town's side.

[Beskar]

Actually, the Sith and Dark Jedi can work together. Not the Dark Jedi and the Jedi. The Dark Jedi are too chaotix for my liking though.

*does wavy handmovements*

[pevergreen]

Actually, the Sith and Dark Jedi can work together. Not the Dark Jedi and the Jedi. The Dark Jedi are too chaotix for my liking though.

*does wavy handmovements*

Yeah, we already know that. Come talk to me when you have something useful.

You too ironside.

[Joooray]

First, because I have been asked to state my night kills. Nothing has changed since last time. I have only attacked dcmort and Stuck in Pi, ever since that I have only been investigating. I will be sending my results to the Force Ghosts.

It is possible that Jooray is a dark jedi: I keep coming back to that "not quite a sith lord" comment. However, looking at the deaths the past few nights, there doesn't seem to be any that we can attribute to him. He doesn't seem to be killing, and he is obviously powerful, so I think he is more helpful to the townie cause alive than dead to be perfectly honest.

While you are right, let me remind you that this is a weak point in my defence, I could easily have gained another killing ability and when using this would have gone unnoticed in the write ups. This is generally something to keep in mind for those analysing the write-ups.
All in all it is very difficult to identify individuals in the write-up.

Joooray, I think, needs to go. He may just be a dark jedi, but seriously, there were 5 attempts last night. We can't let our leader off the hook with that kind of performance just because he might be helping us.

I can't control what people are doing during the night. All I can do, and did in the last day phase as well, is to strongly discourage people from vig killing, as the holocron is quite explicit on it leading to the Dark Side after a while.

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

I know, this is coming from me, the accused, so you might not believe me. Still let me restate what I posted here after the dcmort fiasco, about the interpretation of those investigation results, pizza let me know about after my second investigation on dcmort:
You are beginning to realize that susceptible to the Dark Side means that they are not Sith yet.
When someone is not susceptible to the Dark Side, but the Dark Side is present, they are either Sith or highly resistant to the Dark Side.

Regardless, its a third varience on that investigation return. However, even without that, we know he has killed, we know he has force lightning, a dark side power.

No, it is a power that Jedi can also learn. I told you gained that ability during the day before I attacked dcmort. If you believe I was already on the Dark Side at that point, tell me which kills before that you attribute to my doing?

I am glad you find the idea that a replacement could be sith so believable. What I said was that he was paying attention in the beginning, but soon found that he could not devote enough time to do as well as he liked. As one who's been in that situation many times myself, I admire him for being willing to give up and have someone more capable replace him.

I appreciate you making that elaborate case against Sasaki and encourage you to continue to do so, you have a unique position in this game and the town can only benefit from you utilizing that.
Just one quick thing I noticed and we have to keep in mind. Sasaki and any other suspect which we accuse with the help of his behaviour before the night before last night, has to be either the Sith Lord or the Dark One since the Apprentice is accounted for after all (if we are looking for the main threats). With this in mind, there are two important points to consider in regard of your case against Sasaki. For one I find it hard to believe that someone would give away his role as Sith Lord or the Dark One. Still it is a possibility , but even then, a rise in attacks during the night cannot be attributed to the Sith Lord suddenly starting to kill, as there are clearly Sith kills during the first nights. Not sure if kills by the Dark One will also appear to be done by Sith (red saber and all) or if the Sith Lord was able to kill twice after Beskar's early demise. (There are two possible Sith attacks the night after the night Beskar died).Hence I'm unsure if he could be the Dark One.
(BTW: This was also, why I spoke very much against Cecil's lynch yesterday, as Renata also pointed out later on, he was clearly shown in the write-up as not being to able to defend himself very well when he was attacked during the night, something that didn't point at him being either the Sith Lord, nor the Dark One. Why he still survived should be obvious now.)

I'll Vote: Greyblades for now, like Arpeg said, his post smells like scum to me.

Finally a tally for your convenience, hope it is accurate:
Joooray: Robbiecon, God Emperor, Diana Abnoba, Nightbinger? (didn't unvote)
Sasaki: Cecil, Autolycus, Chaotix, Seon? (didn't unvote correctly?)
Greylades: ApreggiateTHIS, Frozen in Ice, Joooray
Diana Abnoba: Jarema, Ignoramus, Wideyedwanderer
Diamondeye: Pychonaut, pevergreen
Ignoramus: Greyblades, Double A
Autolycus: ByzantineKnight
Chaotix: Sasaki

I hope this is not ignored the way my last posts apparently were.

[pevergreen]

No, it is a power that Jedi can also learn. I told you gained that ability during the day before I attacked dcmort. If you believe I was already on the Dark Side at that point, tell me which kills before that you attribute to my doing?

I'm simply stating that you have an ability that points to you being down the path towards sithyness.

[TinCow]

Joooray is clearly either Dark Jedi or Sith. Victory conditions clearly state that Dark Jedi are not part of the town. While they appear to be not quite as bad as the Sith, they're still not on our side.

Vote: Joooray

Being afraid of 'turning the Dark Jedi against us' is a bit misleading, as they're not on our side in the first place.

[Greyblades]

Scummy post. Vote: Greyblades

I'll Vote: Greyblades for now, like Arpeg said, his post smells like scum to me.

I swear I make a "smells like scum" or "I've got a feeling about him" envoking post every game. I only voted for ignoramus because pretending to be a vigilante is a classic mafia move and voting for jJoooray would be an even worse choice than him what with being head of the order and all.

Unvote, vote: ironsides Sorry guy but you admitted your sith and admitting you're mafia rarely works out well unless your playing a game where you cant be lynched, like beefy's Noble sons. I just dont get why you would sell out just to pin a dark jedi lable on chaotix, couldn't you do it without revealing?

[pevergreen]

Hes dead.

[pevergreen]

Double post!

Ok, I just learnt a whole bunch about this game.

Summarise:

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

Certain lightsaber forms take you to the dark side. Form 7: Juyo II is one of the two.
Certain powers take you to the dark side.
Certain powers move you to the light side, others enable you to push someone else to it/prevent them from going to dark side.
There is a power that lets you use dark side abilities without turning to the darkside.
There is a power that lets you learn dark side powers you are attacked with.
There is absolutes at the end of the spectrum, if you hit it, you can't be converted. Otherwise you can. Very few will ever hit it.


Joooray is not a good lynch anymore.

[ByzantineKnight]

What's so suspicious about agreeing with me?

Nothing too horrible, just the way they agreed

[TinCow]

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

...

Joooray is not a good lynch anymore.

Based on the first sentence, the GM Dark Jedi is basically a serial killer. So, in order for the second line to follow from the first, there needs to be no possibility that apprentice Dark Jedi would become the new master Dark Jedi. Do you have information that indicates that?

[God Emperor]

First, because I have been asked to state my night kills. Nothing has changed since last time. I have only attacked dcmort and Stuck in Pi, ever since that I have only been investigating. I will be sending my results to the Force Ghosts.

Thank you. I would pick Beefy, as pevergreens last comment "I am almost done caring about this game", doesn't sound too promising

I hope this is not ignored the way my last posts apparently were.

I know that feeling



I will try again and voice some questions which all have gone unanswered:

Ignoramus: will you please send a list of your night results/actions to a force ghost ? would make the most sense to give the informatino to the same person that Joooray is sending to

Andres: You were the first person in the game to come up with an idea that night kills lead to the dark side. Where in the game thread did that information come from.. Or didn't it come from the public part of the game? :)

Psychonaut: yesterday, or two days ago( not sure), you joined this, imo bad bandwagon, on Diamondeye, with reasons that things he had said in private was scummy. What was it that he said, that was scummy, and did you talk with him yourself? or head it from somone else?

[pevergreen]

Based on the first sentence, the GM Dark Jedi is basically a serial killer. So, in order for the second line to follow from the first, there needs to be no possibility that apprentice Dark Jedi would become the new master Dark Jedi. Do you have information that indicates that?

Dark Jedi have the choice of going either way.

3 factions in the game
Town (jedi)
Sith (sith master and apprentice)
Sith (dark one)

Dark jedi are between one and two.
We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side. If we take him out, we risk an unknown becoming the grandmaster, possibly a sith. Sith can become the GM.

[God Emperor]

Yeah, we already know that. Come talk to me when you have something useful.

You too ironside.

Dark Jedi have the choice of going either way.

3 factions in the game
Town (jedi)
Sith (sith master and apprentice)
Sith (dark one)

Dark jedi are between one and two.
We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side. If we take him out, we risk an unknown becoming the grandmaster, possibly a sith. Sith can become the GM.

This isn't the case is it pevergreen?

[TinCow]

Dark jedi are between one and two.
We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side. If we take him out, we risk an unknown becoming the grandmaster, possibly a sith. Sith can become the GM.

As of this moment, Joooray is a Dark Jedi, and a very powerful one. Do you have an actual planned course of action to convert him back to the light side within the next few turns? He either needs to be redeemed now or eliminated. Leaving him in limbo, able to go either direction depending on how the wind blows, is a very bad idea.

[naut]

Psychonaut: yesterday, or two days ago( not sure), you joined this, imo bad bandwagon, on Diamondeye, with reasons that things he had said in private was scummy. What was it that he said, that was scummy, and did you talk with him yourself? or head it from somone else?

Making up stuff I see.

a) I created the case against Diamondeye
b) I have had no private interactions with anyone, I am fairly staunchly against out of thread activity, because I have had bad experiences with it.

What I did say was that my gut didn't like the way Diamondeye had interacted in-thread and his posting style was off.

If you are going to make stuff up and try smear the innocent please try harder.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Joooray: (5) Robbiecon, God Emperor, Diana Abnoba, Nightbringer, Tincow

Diana Abnoba: (4) Jarema, Nightbringer, WEW, Ignoramus

Sasaki: (3) Cecil, Autolycus, Chaotix,

Greyblades: (3) ArpeggiateTHIS, Frozen in Ice, Joooray

Diamondeye: (2) Psychonaut, pevergreen

Ironside: (1) Greyblades

Autolycus: (1) ByzantineKnight

Kagemusha: (1) Diamondeye

Ignoramus: (1) Double A

Chaotix: (1) Sasaki


abstain: (1) Seon (did not unvote and then vote, voted then unvoted)



Errors in tally? Contact me.

[Andres]

Andres: You were the first person in the game to come up with an idea that night kills lead to the dark side. Where in the game thread did that information come from.. Or didn't it come from the public part of the game? :)

I clearly said in that post that it was all speculation and hypothesis.

[Renata]

I'm not going to follow the case on Sasaki; While there is some merit to Cecil's argument (and I am indeed suspicious of Sasaki), I'm not sure it's the best place for my vote. Instead, I'm going with my Kagemusha vote for now.

Reasoning on Kagemusha? I'm reading everything out of order as usual, but I did notice your vote for him, and there was no comment attached. What makes him more worthy of a vote than Sasaki, in your eyes?

[Renata]

We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side.

I have to echo TinCow and ask how you can keep a check on that.

[God Emperor]

@ Psychonout

it was based on this line "FoS: Diamondeye

Something is DEEPLY TROUBLING with his posts and the interactions he's had with others. I don't like it. My bones don't like it."

I see now that it can be interperet differently, as you say. Thanks for the respons :)

I clearly said in that post that it was all speculation and hypothesis.

Yes you did name it that.. The reasons why I am worried about it is this: We have a high number of attacks each night phase, since the very begenning of the game. There is nothing wrong in comming up with theories, but apparently your theory appeared to be spot on, and you have nothing in the game thread to support this theory.. Being so precise about what is going on at such an early stage of the game, is imo a little too convinient , when there have been so many nightly attacks.

adding this with pevergreens pm, that he showed publicly somewhere in the thread, which said that the person in contact with pevergreen had not moved closer to the dark side after a killing (iirc it was after killing a sith, but I am not certain). The point is that killers apparently get a notice that they moved closer to the dark side when killing innocent..

I hope you can see why I think your post is worth noticing

Edit: ATPG just said that Andres is dead..... bah

[Renata]

Psychonaut: yesterday, or two days ago( not sure), you joined this, imo bad bandwagon, on Diamondeye ...

Why is it a bad bandwagon?

Edit: Also, Andres' post would in fact be worth noticing ... if he were still alive. He's been dead for quite a while now.

Andres- Jedi Initiate Stre-don Rett (Killed Night Six)

He hasn't subbed back in unless both I missed it AND Pizza missed making a note of it in his player lists.

[God Emperor]

Why is it a bad bandwagon?

Edit: Also, Andres' post would in fact be worth noticing ... if he were still alive. He's been dead for quite a while now.



He hasn't subbed back in unless both I missed it AND Pizza missed making a note of it in his player lists.

yes.. I don't know how I managed to miss that he was dead...

As for why I didn't like that bandwagon: It was based on two things iirc; scummy thread behavior, and scans that says he has light side in him.

I never found his in thread behavior scummy at that time. In fact quite the contrary. I think he behaved like he does , when he is town. And with the scan.. I know it is different from our first result, but.. when reading it 'light side in him' doesn't exactly suggest the oppersite imo

[Renata]

Double post!

Ok, I just learnt a whole bunch about this game.

Summarise:

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

Certain lightsaber forms take you to the dark side. Form 7: Juyo II is one of the two.
Certain powers take you to the dark side.
Certain powers move you to the light side, others enable you to push someone else to it/prevent them from going to dark side.
There is a power that lets you use dark side abilities without turning to the darkside.
There is a power that lets you learn dark side powers you are attacked with.
There is absolutes at the end of the spectrum, if you hit it, you can't be converted. Otherwise you can. Very few will ever hit it.


Joooray is not a good lynch anymore.

Never mind my previous question if you can actually keep tabs on what Joooray is doing at night as regards light/dark influencing stuff. If you can't, the issue remains.

If saber forms other than Juyo II are known to push toward the Dark Side, or if you know the powers that do, you should probably say so. There is a risk of certain people choosing them deliberately, if they know, but I think a greater risk of people being turned unknowingly and not wanting it. For instance, I have Juyo II. It's never been used. But it might have been, if you hadn't said this just now.