Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Diamondeye]

First things first, thank you very much for protecting me, Greyblades. Especially after I doubted you during the day. I'm very sorry you died and I'll do anything that it won't be in vain. Please, if you got any thought about suspicious people, say so, we need the help of anybody, especially of those confirmed not part of a threat against us.

It is very good to see so many people surviving attacks last night, good choices in defences, keep it up.
Still, last night was quite frustrating for me. Not only does it seem like I was once again attacked by vigs. I don't know why people think they should judge me on their own, when the majority of the town seems to trust me at this point. And I'm doing my best to earn this trust, the Froce Ghosts are my witnesses.
One thing we have to consider at this point though, is there might be people who's personal goal is to hold my position and that's why they attack me. But that's just a thought.
However additional to the attack, I was also blocked, which made me pretty much a lame duck last night. If this was done by a townie, I'd appreciate if it wouldn't happen again, otherwise I won't be able to help much. I'll take the necessary precautions though.

In regard of Diana, one thing that people voting her have to be aware of, is that she is a Jedi Master, I checked the write-ups and it was announced after Day 11. This of course doesn't prove anything, but still even if she is inactive during the day, she is active during the night and might be helpful there. But I'd very much like to hear from her, because I do think we should follow up on lynches after people survived via Force Breath. We should however take the chance to review the case against her, which seems rather thin in my personal opinion. But then again, there is little to go with in her case.

I won't be voting at this point, as I'd prefer it if the day wouldn't end in a few hours already as the phase would have been awfully short this way and I think we need to some time to talk. It doesn't seem like that should be a problem though.

I had the impression that at least one of your attackers used a Dark power - so the writeup would have it look like, at least. So blaming it on vigilante killers, solely, might be naïve.

I have been thinking about the same thing, and you are right. Duels main purpose, imo, is to negate force breath.. as duels most likely will end in sith advantage it should only rarely be used.

I think duels are a bad idea, becuase frankly, in order to take down the Dark One or the Sith Master, I think we'd need to send in someone as powerful as them - ie a Grandmaster or something the like - and we don't want the GM placed even near a tie since it'd be too easy to last-minute lynch him. No, I don't think duels is the way to go, although I understand the argument.

I like the case on Autolycus, but I still have this nagging suspicion about Diana, and we rid her of Force Breath last lynch, so now would be the perfect time if we really want to lynch her. I'll have to ponder this some more...

Full post is in spoilers, but for convenience of some especially in a game with this many posts and this big, there is a tldr version at the bottom which sums up what I felt needed be said.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now how is this fact, you claim to have been attacked last night, but past evidence tells us for sure that the sith have another lightsaber.

Why are you ignoring the fact that the sith have lightsabers that are not red? Are you claiming that the sith have not attacked for how many countless numbers of nights? I am certain that no red lightsaber has popped up for a very long while already.

And even if Renata attacked you last night, (May not be true, I died too early to figure out if so or not) how would she know which attack popped up in the write up, especially since pizza only refers to the attackers by "cloaked figure" or something similar.

You could say that she would know via the stance she chose, but admittedly, Soresu and Makashi are extremely commonly used stances, unless pizza tells the attacker the role name of those they attacked, I see little to indicate that Renata knows the "facts" that you have mentioned.

Which leads to the next question, why are you trying to intentionally discredit Renata, especially seeing as she is accusing you, and you have merely responded with facts that are false?



Your post seems merely to have proceeded from:

1. Self Defense
2. Counter accusation of your accuser
3. Intentional discrediting of your accuser who would have brought about a more substantial case if she had the time [if I might add with the explanation of the above, eyebrow raising accusations]
4. Reinforcement of your "innocence" if that might be the case
5. Self defense of your behavior



The next question is, how do you know that Renata is a jedi? First you claim that you think Renata attacked you, then you say that she should have known several details which from my dead padawan's point of view sounds very unlikely, then you somehow know that Renata is innocent and in your own words, "a jedi" who tried to stab you during the night. I smell perfect information syndrome or something similar.

I will concur with the view point expressed by several still living, your behavior is very odd Nightbringer. Not to mention that you raised several big "analysis" that indicated the "supposed guilt" of the accused parties such as Csargo, but you very quickly changed your opinion, contrary to what such a case indicated, that you were fairly sure of their guilt, and hence decided to make a case on them to get them lynched.

Instead, you cited interesting reasons such as "not knowing that he was not a serious player", ignoring a simple obstruction to your generalization that it is not entirely impossible that several players would not be serious as it was still early-mid game.

tl;dr version:
Nightbringer raises a very odd counter accusation to his accuser, Renata, as if trying to discredit her, his claims of things that she should supposedly "know" are very queer and eye brow raising. Following this, he defends himself and his behavior, passing an excuse for it to try and save himself from reprisal if any for his actions, as if he was trying to stay alive very hard.

Following that, he somehow claims with certainty that Renata is a jedi. Not to mention, earlier in the game, he made large cases of supposed "analysis" on several people, a venture that as a townie would have taken suspicion in the first place, before dedicating time to even make that case that early in the game (early - mid game stage). Yet he easily brushed aside this "suspicion" of his once it was clear that town approval was not forthcoming and the votes weren't piling on.

This easy discarding of what should have been strong suspicions, especially for a townie to have come out that early in the game with such cases, is very suspicious and should be looked at closely. Coupled with his odd behavior in the present, it leads me to believe that there is some merit in suspicion towards him.

I attacked Nightbringer last night, not Renata. From his posts, you can already deduct his character name, since he clearly mentions that he is the one being attacked with an emerald lightsaber - and there are only one of those in the writeup.
I do not have the impression that Nightbringer is worth pursuing at the moment. He acts... odd, perhaps, but I think it's merely an attempt to be helpful by trying to construct cases on people, even if it comes off as quite scummy. His powers in battle were not overwhelming even if he survived, my results quite clearly dictate that we were quite equal. I started as an initiate and have only been a knight for a couple of nights (since the great promotion-fest), and I think both the Dark One and the Sith Lord would be able to easily defeat me - even outright kill me in self-defence - without revealing their true identities.

As such, I don't think there's a case against Nightbringer. I'm on the fence between Diana and Autolycus, but one I'd really like to have more attention is - paradoxically - Renata. She's told us herself she hasn't got Force Breath, so it'd be a clean lynch, but I seem to recall pevergreen advising against her lynch.
Vote:Renata. pever, feel free to explain to me in public or private why Renata should be left alone.

[Andres]

Speculation: maybe the Sith Lord can't be lynched/vigged as long as his Apprentices are alive. It has been done before, a Godfather-like role who can't be killed as long as the henchmen live.

Speculation2, building on previous speculation: the Sith Lord only has one apprentice, but he can pick a new apprentice when his current apprentice dies, by recruitingfrom the pool of "dark jedi". Maybe the Sith Lord can only be lynched/vigged in the rounds/nights in which he doesn't have an apprentice.

[Ironside]

Still, last night was quite frustrating for me. Not only does it seem like I was once again attacked by vigs. I don't know why people think they should judge me on their own, when the majority of the town seems to trust me at this point. And I'm doing my best to earn this trust, the Froce Ghosts are my witnesses.
One thing we have to consider at this point though, is there might be people who's personal goal is to hold my position and that's why they attack me. But that's just a thought.

And you call yourself Grandmaster, yet you don't see the obvious. Your attackers were Chaotix and his puppetmaster, the dark one (in that order even).

With the Sith busy elsewere (by APTG:s own admission, Robbiecon's alternate reality nightmares are because of this), and a coordinated heavy attack by two players on the same night the Dark one and mr Purple saber shred their tell sign of attacks?

Who else can it be?

Also, Igno attacked Bane Anded last night.

[pevergreen]

And you call yourself Grandmaster, yet you don't see the obvious. Your attackers were Chaotix and his puppetmaster, the dark one (in that order even).

With the Sith busy elsewere (by APTG:s own admission, Robbiecon's alternate reality nightmares are because of this), and a coordinated heavy attack by two players on the same night the Dark one and mr Purple saber shred their tell sign of attacks?

Who else can it be?

Also, Igno attacked Bane Anded last night.

Golly gosh, he's....he is... wrong as usual

Andres: Maybe.

DiamondEye: Why are you so eager to just go around killing with no basis for anything.

You vigilantes are just picking and choosing random people, keep this up and we'll lose, no problem.

[robbiecon]

I really don't like either bandwagon, so I'm gonna Vote: Sasaki Kojiro 2 as a protest.

[Khazaar]

We all know protestvoting leads to the darkside, blurring the boundaries between light and darkness...

Vote: robbiecon

[robbiecon]

....And due to an INCREDIBLE screw-up on my part, Robbiecon is now alive.

Because orders were changed, and I missed them.

Entirely possible someone else is dead. What fun.



Pardon me for a moment.



EDIT:
Okay. Long story short:


The attack on Robbiecon never happens. Robbiecon is alive and well.

The attack happens on Bip Kenner instead, and.... he survives.

The defense used was a gigantic field of charged protons. This stuns the attacker long enough for Kenner to escape.

I'm so depressed by this mistake that I don't have the creative energy to re-write all this.

This mistake is mostly my fault, and I apologize for it. I realize how big a screw-up this is, and what the reason for it was. It can happen to any host where quicktopic-based orders are involved. But it's my fault.



Unfortunately I might have to make a minor balancing adjustment now, after talking things over with the Sith. This is too big a screw-up to just pass by. The compensation will be minor, but there's gotta be some.


Continue play. Writeup edited.

Seriously Khazaar, read all the thread. I'm essentialy like a living Force Ghost now.

[Ironside]

Golly gosh, he's....he is... wrong as usual

...Right. Then explain why a single serial killer would spend his turn doing nothing.

And that's him or he didn't do anything tonight, it's deductable from the writeups by pure elimination.

I can't help that one of his puppets are whispering lies and half-truths into your ear. Was it mr Purple saber's idea or yours to not attack with a tellsign toninght?

[God Emperor]

let's see. First of all, scans are not useless. The Scan on Joooray worked perfekt, and was correct.

I think Renata is right in her describtion of how alignments work, and it could be demonstrated like this:

X-------J-------------S---N----D-------------------------X

Alright, In the left X we have The Dark Sith lord and perhaps the dark one. In the right X we would have people like Cecil.
N, = Neutral, the vast majority which are 'susceptible to dark side'
S, = Sasaki, he is susceptible to dark side and has some dark side in him. This imo means he moves slightly to the left towards the democrats
D, = Diamondeye, susceptible to dark side, and has some light in him. Moves therefore a bit to the right.
J, = Jooooray , a self proclaimed dark jedi, joooray was scanned as susceptible to dark side and has a sphere of darkness about him.

Scans do not tell us if the person is the dark one and most likely not who the sith lord is. Therefore scans works on sith apprentices, dark jedis and (perhaps if they exist?), dark one minions

Sasaki is a replacement player, and is therefore not very likely either dark one or Sith lord.. In other words Sasaki is most likely innocent, and therefore a bad lynch. Don't make the mistake, force ghosts, and believe scans are useless..

I am willing to take this further. This game is based a lot on the PC game Knights of the old republic. In that game, if your main character performed a good deed, he became good, and an evil deed, bad.

I do not know what trickers good deeds, but I know what evil deeds are; Vigilante kills. The most logical way this would work would be to say that a person becomes a dark jedi once he has performed enough vigilante kills/used dark force powers. Diamondeye would because of this be able to perform more vigilante kills, before turning dark jedi, than Sasaki Kojiro.

Therefore, when Joooray is to turn to the light side, he has to do whatever actions that are connected with the light side (protection of someone etc) , and once he pass the dark jedi/Jedi line, he will be good again. He would have to work more on the light side in order to perform 'free' vigilante kills. .

Sorry I know this doesn't have much to do with our choice of lynch target right now, but I felt the need to express my view on the mechanic when pever said scans were useless

[a completely inoffensive name]

This game is based a lot on the PC game Knights of the old republic. In that game, if your main character performed a good deed, he became good, and an evil deed, bad.

Good thing I have been trying to be a Jolee Bindo kind of person.

[Beefy187]

Scans aren't useless. Its just that its not worth wasting two day phases on an apprentice at this stage.
We really need to lynch the Dark one if we want to win.

[Joooray]

Because I forgot to say it in my last post: Pizza, that write-up was epic. I hope you know that most people enjoy your write-ups a lot and it's what make your game so freaking fantastic. So even if we don't compliment you on every one of them, please keep it up. Especially, don't let a minor screw up like that get you down. It obviously happens to the best.

Back to business:

Joooray, has there been any evidence of personal goals in this game? Because I'm pretty sure I don't have one.

True, I haven't seen any indication in this regard either, I was thinking about, e.g. Pirate Ship mafia and a lot of other games and there some people had that goal. Now that I think about it, it wouldn't make much sense though, as one would also see other people have personal goals, and in this game they seem to be based solely on alignement. In my excuse, t was pretty late when I came up with that idea and it was mainly influenced by my disbelieve why "pro-town" forces would still be attacking me.

I had the impression that at least one of your attackers used a Dark power - so the writeup would have it look like, at least. So blaming it on vigilante killers, solely, might be naïve.

Also true, but the way I see it, the whole setup of the attack seems like a vig-attack to me. (Wanting to arrest me, claim that I'm a Sith and Grey my apprentice) I'm uncertain on whether we can decipher attacks this way, but it seemed to me that Sith attacks were setup very differently. I still don't know if we have witnessed any attacks by the Dark One (most likely we have) and if they would also look like Sith attacks or something else.

You are right, the Force Orb is indeed a Dark Side-attack, the holocron is very specific about it. Thank you for pointing that out.
So Dark Siders attacking me together, while it doesn't seem likely, in my mind, that they were Sith (write-up indication, plus at least one being busy elsewhere), that's actually unsettling. Also, the fact the First attacker switched his vig ability during the fight, points at him being on Master level, if I'm not entirely mistaken. That adds to my worries.

Speculation: maybe the Sith Lord can't be lynched/vigged as long as his Apprentices are alive. It has been done before, a Godfather-like role who can't be killed as long as the henchmen live.

Speculation2, building on previous speculation: the Sith Lord only has one apprentice, but he can pick a new apprentice when his current apprentice dies, by recruitingfrom the pool of "dark jedi". Maybe the Sith Lord can only be lynched/vigged in the rounds/nights in which he doesn't have an apprentice.

Regarding Spec 1.: Unlikely, the holocron explicitly states, that in order to have a real chance at getting ride of the Sith, one would have to kill the Sith Lord first. Because his recruitment ability (if he acquires it) is very powerful and there are only few people that can resist it. The Apprentice needs at least on turn after becoming the new master to acquire that ability and while he has a recruitment ability on his own, it is a lot less powerful and it thus makes the Sith vulnerable for a while.
More importantly though, is that we will have to kill the Dark One first, he has the ability to resurrect any Sith, no matter how long they are dead. Which would make it impossible to kill them, without getting to the Dark One first.

Regarding Spec 2.: As stated above, it seems most likely that the Dark Lord is not relying on people already having become Dark Jedi, he can corrupt almost any mind. The Apprentice, however, might, but recruitability could also be based on other attributes.

[TinCow]

Regarding Spec 2.: As stated above, it seems most likely that the Dark Lord is not relying on people already having become Dark Jedi, he can corrupt almost any mind. The Apprentice, however, might, but recruitability could also be based on other attributes.

If this is true, what is the main concern for the town with people gaining dark side 'points' by vigging? If nearly everyone is susceptible to conversion, what difference does it make whether we stay pure or embark on a Sasaki Rampage (™)?

[God Emperor]

Scans aren't useless. Its just that its not worth wasting two day phases on an apprentice at this stage.
We really need to lynch the Dark one if we want to win.

That's right- Therefore, whenever a sith apprentice or dark one foot soldier is located by scans, it is of utmost importance that this is not revealed to the public. When the sith apprentice dies he is just reincarnated in a new one after all and all that work would be lost. Sorry if I am pointing out the obvious , I just don't know for sure how you, the force ghosts, handle the information you recieve

[Joooray]

Scans aren't useless. Its just that its not worth wasting two day phases on an apprentice at this stage.
We really need to lynch the Dark one if we want to win.

Yeah, that!
I appreciate your thoughts on mechanics, GE and they hold a lot of sense in them, making them very important to keep in mind.
However, as I stated, our foremost goal has to be, to lynch the Dark One, and unfortunately the holocron specifically says that investigations won't work on him.

Fortunately the Dark One is also a threat to the Sith and vice versa, I hope the Sith are aware of that! Don't make the mistake of keeping him alive too long, if you are, you will not be able to control him!

[pevergreen]

Seriously Khazaar, read all the thread. I'm essentialy like a living Force Ghost now.

Wrong.

First of all, scans are not useless. The Scan on Joooray worked perfekt, and was correct.

Also wrong.

Scans aren't useless. Its just that its not worth wasting two day phases on an apprentice at this stage.
We really need to lynch the Dark one if we want to win.

They sort of are. But yes, we do need to lynch the big cheese.

However, as I stated, our foremost goal has to be, to lynch the Dark One, and unfortunately the holocron specifically says that investigations won't work on him.

I dont see any reason to lie about that Joooray.

This power is able to determine if someone is presently on the Dark Side path, however slightly. If a Jedi has not been properly trained or turned to the light-side, as is the case with roughly half of all Initiates, then this power will determine if they are on the dark side path. This will also determine if they are able to be converted to the dark side through Corruption, which is the tier I dark side conversion power.

However, it should be noted that Jedi on the Light Side can be converted through Mind Control, which is the tier II dark side conversion power, available only to the MOST ADVANCED SITH. In other words, a Sith Apprentice will not be able to gain this ability, and destroying the Sith Lord and Dark Lord of the Sith will negate this power until the Sith Apprentice is promoted to Sith Lord and learns this power. It is not automatic, so there is a window of weakness which can be exploited when both the Dark Lord and Sith Lord have been destroyed. It is then possible to destroy the Sith utterly, as they will lack the ability to convert anyone at will, only those susceptible to Corruption (tier I conversion).

If someone is NOT convertible but is on the Dark Side, then they are either Sith already or they have a STRONG resistance to the Dark Side. There is one on this vessel who is studying the Dark Side, but is still a Jedi... and his mind is very powerful and able to resist all but Mind Control.

Nomi Sunrider's log:

I have determined from the security holograms that there are Two Sith.... a Master and an Apprentice. The Master is the main threat, the Apprentice is not nearly as powerful as the Master. When the Master is slain, the Apprentice becomes the new Master, and will try to recruit another Apprentice from the susceptible Jedi.

If the Apprentice is slain, the Master will have a much easier time converting Jedi, because their ability to convert is stronger (when they gain Mind Control).

There is also another.... the powerful one I sense.... The Dark One.

This one is immune to almost all investigations, and will only be found when a player uses Investigation III and Investigation IV against the Dark One simultaneously. That will see through his or her powerful cloak and also reveal what is hidden in the deepest recesses of his or her mind.

I feel something terrible will happen to us all if the Dark One is not caught. The Dark One has the power to use Force Reanimation.... which can revive a Sith no matter how long they have been dead.

If the Dark One is not stopped, it will be IMPOSSIBLE TO DESTROY THE SITH!!!

There, you got served with some knowledge town.

Also, some people requested it a while back, so far the only non-killing power that moves you towards the darkside that we know about is the second tier of force stealth.

[Renata]

my vote was not shallow, at least imo. the part about him not knowing ironside was daed was just one part of my vote, and that combined with the activity jump and what I saw as scummy behavior is frankly more than what you are claiming is a case against me, in fact, this is about as much of a case as their is on anybody at this time.

Shallow isn't quite the right word. I meant more along the lines of "this can't possibly be for real, so it must be fake". You have to twist yourself in logical knots to get from Grayblades' comment on Ironside to Grayblades being scum. Silly mistakes like that are almost the exclusive province of townies, and where they are not, they come from people like Sasaki, not people like Grayblades, no insult intended to either one. That post (especially but not exclusively because of how late it came), all but screamed of "oh wow I need to a cast a vote but the bandwagons are sucky, what shall I do what shall I do -- oh! somebody did something weird, and he's on a bandwagon to boot, oh happy day" followed by a torturous justification for why this particular weirdness might be perpetrated by scum.

As for other lines of reasoning against you, there is your tires-screeching-on-the-pavement backpedal from a previous vote (Csargo) after Sasaki called you out on it, which was enough to raise eyebrows and contributed to my first vote on you. There is also the fact that you have, IIRC, all but abandoned your previously very extensive, very diligent analysis of scummy players since you started being questioned at all. Even your grammar and typography have gone downhill. That all speaks of someone who's overstepped and is trying to not be noticed anymore.

Also, since I think it is likely that you were the one that attacked me last night, you should KNOW I am not a sith because I do not have a red lightsaber.

I didn't attack you or anyone last night. As for red lightsabers being Sith, you have the implications backwards. Pizza said that if you see a red lightsaber, you know it's a Sith. He didn't say, and in fact took great pains to imply the opposite, that if you see some other color, you know you're not dealing with a Sith. Beskar had two lightsabers; only one was red. What I need to ask Pizza is whether an attacked Sith, who survives the attack, would ever show the red lightsaber. I suspect the answer is he would not, else the game would be very easy to break, but I haven't actually asked.

I am also not a dark jedi but I see no way to prove this to you except that I have not killed anyone, and as such would not have been corrupted.

I point out Belisarius II again, who has never been implicated in any attacks. Some Dark Jedi may have begun the game that way.

If I seem to be overly concerned with defending myself from the accusations of one person it is merely because I do not want to be stabbed by another jedi during the next night phase, as was tried last night.

Death is Yonder is right, you should have no reason to believe that the person who attacked you was a Jedi, emerald lightsaber or no. Especially given it turned out to be Diamondeye, who has Dark Jedi written all over him. It's a weak point, though.

[TinCow]

So, essentially, we need to kill the Dark One first, then the Sith Master, then the Sith Apprentice. The order needs be done properly, and the Apprentice needs to be killed very quickly after the Master. Sounds easy!

[Renata]

If this is true, what is the main concern for the town with people gaining dark side 'points' by vigging? If nearly everyone is susceptible to conversion, what difference does it make whether we stay pure or embark on a Sasaki Rampage (™)?

Becoming so Dark that you turn Dark Jedi, and thus neutral? That has to count against town numbers, at the very least. In a personal sense, it would change your victory condition to something else, maybe something harder to achieve than keeping your nose clean and trying to find the two big bads and the apprentice tagalong. Dead town can still achieve a victory; is that true for a dead neutral?

[TinCow]

Oh, also...

Unvote; Vote: Nightbringer

Make it a choice between him and autolycus. It's absurd to lynch Diana again. She hasn't posted anywhere on the Org since Sunday. That's not intentional lurking, that's simple absence from the forums.

[Renata]

I think duels are a bad idea, becuase frankly, in order to take down the Dark One or the Sith Master, I think we'd need to send in someone as powerful as them - ie a Grandmaster or something the like - and we don't want the GM placed even near a tie since it'd be too easy to last-minute lynch him. No, I don't think duels is the way to go, although I understand the argument.

And although it is ohsoconvenient for you that you take this stance.

I like the case on Autolycus, but I still have this nagging suspicion about Diana, and we rid her of Force Breath last lynch, so now would be the perfect time if we really want to lynch her. I'll have to ponder this some more...

Ponder away.

and I think both the Dark One and the Sith Lord would be able to easily defeat me - even outright kill me in self-defence - without revealing their true identities.

I'm not sure whether this is true, or whether Pizza will tell me, but I intend to ask about this theory.

As such, I don't think there's a case against Nightbringer. I'm on the fence between Diana and Autolycus, but one I'd really like to have more attention is - paradoxically - Renata. She's told us herself she hasn't got Force Breath, so it'd be a clean lynch, but I seem to recall pevergreen advising against her lynch.
Vote:Renata. pever, feel free to explain to me in public or private why Renata should be left alone.

You. Are. So. Scummy.

You're "on the fence" between two suspects, but you vote me, and furthermore you go fishing in pevergreen's pool for whether or not you might be stepping in it to do so. (He has never vouched for me, either.)

Why'd you attack Nightbringer, and who else have you attacked?

[autolycus]

Here's my take on why we should lynch Diana Abnoba over me.

Me: Admittedly not particularly useful posts thus far, but consistently posting about once every day, giving at least a little more evidence in either direction about my guilt/innocence, and sharing info about me with one of the force ghosts. Now that I've been accused, pressure will only build for me to provide more active analysis or otherwise prove my worth.

Diana Abnoba: 3 posts in the past 2 weeks. Claims to have been protecting someone every night for many nights now, but unless she was green lightsaber, has not protected anyone who was attacked.

[Ironside]

Fortunately the Dark One is also a threat to the Sith and vice versa, I hope the Sith are aware of that! Don't make the mistake of keeping him alive too long, if you are, you will not be able to control him!

What has I been saying for a long time? It's all about control.

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

So what are you two holding out on? If he's only 1, why should my master bother unless there's only a few left?

[God Emperor]

pever could you please say more than 'wrong' ? Why wasn't Joooray's scan accurate? I don't see any logical flaws in the way I think alignment works in this game, so am I missing some information?

[Askthepizzaguy]

To those that are wondering, the rules clearly state you can't communicate with the dead privately.

Force Ghosts are an exception, and the rules were amended as soon as it became an issue, to state that.

[ByzantineKnight]

Vote: autolycus for being scummy ^_^

[pevergreen]

So what are you two holding out on? If he's only 1, why should my master bother unless there's only a few left?

Cause he beats you 1v1.

pever could you please say more than 'wrong' ? Why wasn't Joooray's scan accurate? I don't see any logical flaws in the way I think alignment works in this game, so am I missing some information?

Yeah, you're missing info. Info that the sith likely don't have, so kinda not giving it to you.

That threat via PM DiamondEye? Very real. Carry out your planned night kill, and you will be killed.

[Diamondeye]

And although it is ohsoconvenient for you that you take this stance.

I realized someone would point that out. I suppose I'm allowed to have an opinion that might benefit myself. Apologies if the case is the contrary ;

I'm not sure whether this is true, or whether Pizza will tell me, but I intend to ask about this theory.

I'd like to know what you get for an answer, actually. It may be that my character simply felt that the battle was equal because my opponent reined himself, yet I'm pretty convinced that's not the case. Even the writeup says that we keep fighting almost until dawn; I doubt that'd be the case if the battle wasn't almost equal.

You're "on the fence" between two suspects, but you vote me, and furthermore you go fishing in pevergreen's pool for whether or not you might be stepping in it to do so. (He has never vouched for me, either.)

He might not have but I have the definite impression that he is holding his hand over you, and I want to know why. Uninformed vigilante killers are mroe or less equal to serial killers; used properly, they are an extremely effective tool in removing the mafia. Is it wrong of me to ask pevergreen who I should attack? Should I pick without asking?

Why'd you attack Nightbringer, and who else have you attacked?

This was my first attack as I've not been a Knight for very long. Pizza should be able to confirm in public what he has answered in private; there are no vigilante abilities below Knight rank.
I attacked Nightbringer because he struck me as *off* and potentially scummy, to clear my impression of him. If he had died, I'd know for certain which side he was on, but even the impression I have now is far clearer than before.

pever could you please say more than 'wrong' ?

This! I don't know how many people pevergreen is actively talking to and how many he just wants to push around, but if he wants people to follow his plans and ideas, he needs to be far more informative.
I asked pevergreen yesterday (in the day phase!) who I should attack, with no reply. Hence, I picked someone I found scummy. Today, I sent him my suggestion for who I should attack since I figured he wouldn't actually suggest someone (he hasn't, shocker), and he (as you probably read) threatened to have me killed if I pursued that lead.

Now, while I don't agree with his method of threatening - it's extremely egoistic to squander ressources that way - I understand why he'd do so, and I don't have any intentions of going through with the attack on the suggested target. What I'd really like is an alternative since you yourself seem to be annoyed at the apparent fumbling in darkness; I understand why you wouldn't want to spill lots of information, but simply saying "vig kill this or that person" would be nice. I believe you actually made such a post after that threat, somewhere... I'll find it if it exists.

That threat via PM DiamondEye? Very real. Carry out your planned night kill, and you will be killed.

"planned"? Please, stop twisting my words. I asked the confirmed innocent for directions and what did I get? No directions but a big fat threat to my face. You really know how to keep the ranks loyal, sirrah.

[Diamondeye]

For lack of better targets for vigilantes tonight, I'd take Pyscho and ACIN.

Found it. Is this as jokish as the smiley suggests, or do you want any of these people actually removed?

[TinCow]

Now, while I don't agree with his method of threatening - it's extremely egoistic to squander ressources that way - I understand why he'd do so, and I don't have any intentions of going through with the attack on the suggested target. What I'd really like is an alternative since you yourself seem to be annoyed at the apparent fumbling in darkness; I understand why you wouldn't want to spill lots of information, but simply saying "vig kill this or that person" would be nice. I believe you actually made such a post after that threat, somewhere... I'll find it if it exists.

Why has it not occurred to you that an alternative is to refrain from killing anyone?