EB 1.2 + CITY MOD b + Darth 16.2 for EB + Sinuhet 7.0 AI Battle Formations for EB

[MDPR]

The Ptolemaio front



This screenshot shows the fall of Antiocheia and its garrison of 19 mostly heavy units, of where two where my elite phalanx costing almost 4000 Mnai each.

The Ptolemaio siege-force had 3 Klerouchikon Agema-units, (Ptolemaic Elite Phalanx), and its stack consisted of 22 units, of which two where bodyguard cavalry units.

I only managed to take out 1 Klerouchikon Agema-unit, (Ptolemaic Elite Phalanx), however, the remaining two units, had some 40 and 30 soldiers left each, and you can see them on the screenshot above, walking on the plaza among all the dead, just before my final troops are killed.

More than 4000 men was killed in this siege battle, of which the 2800 was my troops.

A massacre. A disaster. Perhaps, quite likely, the end of this campaign.

Cause now everything is open now, with the exception of one close-to-full-stack, a depleted stack, all my other stacks and half-stacks are deployed long, long away from this "front", - or gap is probably a more precise word, yes this gap i now have where I before had a front.

I have no proofen idea of how to take out those Ptolemaio units of Klerouchikon Agema yet? They are super-armoured, even when assaulting them in the rear.

I havent been able to attack them in their rear with my own phalanx though? Arrows dosent really work, already tried that. Also, when they stand in friont of a tower that would normally decimate a unit, they only loose 5 10 men.



The beginning of the end?

In this same turn, wher I have now lost what I could not afford to loose, the important city of Antiocheia, I also lost Sidon, Edessa and Zakradata, and also lost a minor battle north of Sidon, where 6 of my heavy spear-units were thrown back and depleted with 40-50%.

I got a message the turn after, saying that Edessa has now been sacked and enslaved. This have given Ptolemaio a lot of Mnai, cause Edessa had a 16.000 populos.

In total, I have lost some 35-40 units in 1 single turn, including a population of some 40.000 at least, which is a lot when playing City mod b.

Between Edessa, Palmyra and Antiocheia, the victorious forces of the Ptolemaio faction, still has huge armies ready, with at least 3 Klerouchikon Agema-units left, although they must be severely depleted by now? Hopefully they are.


What now?

Should I sell out of all my buildings in some cities on my east front? Sack an entire city so I can raise a new army and somehow beat Ptolemaio back?

Or should I stop the campaign here while it is still fun?




Great challenge on vh/vh. Must say.

[FriendlyFire]

I have no proofen idea of how to take out those Ptolemaio units of Klerouchikon Agema yet? They are super-armoured, even when assaulting them in the rear.

On medium battle difficulty I find them straightforward to take out, as long as I can dedicate two units to do the job. On very hard battle difficulty they get a +7 bonus to defense, which is why I mentioned using horse-archers: defense doesn't count against missile weapons, so their bonus wouldn't apply. Other things to try:

• Wear them out before they make contact with your line. Exhausted troops are less lethal in combat, so if you can force them to march all over the battlefield you reduce your own casualties in the final combat. Lure them with skirmishers and/or keep backing your own line away and/or make them march uphill.
• Isolate them from the main fight. If one starts advancing towards a unit of yours, back away to lure it through your lines. Then reform the lines - now you have it trapped and can apply the following tactics.
• Pin them with another phalanx that's on higher ground. A height advantage is a huge force-multiplier in phalanx combat: on normal battle difficulty a levy phalanx on a good slope will butcher an elite phalanx trying to fight its way uphill. This may be another way to nullify that +7 bonus.
• Whenever your phalanx switches to "Fighting" status, select it and hit Backspace to go back to "Ready". This saves their energy, and most of the killing gets done by other troops anyway. The one exception is if the enemy phalanx does an about face to point its sarissas at whoever's attacking it from behind - then your own phalanx should attack to get their attention again!
• Hit them in the back with missile fire. Slingers are great, since their missiles are armor-piercing, but horse-archers are easier to get into position. Either one can also be used as a skirmisher to wear the enemy out first.
• Hit them in the back with armor-piercing infantry. Axemen are good for this: cheap and easily recruitable. However, this won't be nearly as effective on VH difficulty, since that +7 defense makes the elite phalangites insanely good in melee combat (especially if your own axemen are also fighting uphill!).
• Hit them in the back with a heavy cavalry charge - this typically means your general, but Kinsmen will also get the job done: they have an armor-piercing charge with a high attack value and high lethality, plus an armor-piercing secondary weapon for melee combat.
• Break their morale. Even an elite phalangite will break when they are exhausted (bad for morale), see nearby units routing (ditto), are surrounded (ditto), and suffer a lot of casualties in a short time (this is why heavy cavalry charges are so effective). I go even further and have a unit of Galatian wildmen just standing around the battlefield taunting: their fear effect makes the enemy break that much faster. Scythed chariots are another fear-inducer.

Note that I typically use all of the above: wear them out, isolate, fight from higher ground when available, soften them up with missile fire, flank and charge in with AP infantry, then finally follow up with a heavy cavalry charge, all while my Galatians taunt them. I've seen elite phalangites rout after taking less than 50% casualties, which is very gratifying, but if they have a good general commanding them (more bonuses) they'll stand and fight much longer. And all this is just on medium battle difficulty! I don't envy you

[vollorix]

Multiple charges, 2 at least, are very usefull: First your Bodyguards charge in and are kept in melee till the second cav. unit arrives. The first blow mostly causes "shaken", while the second one does the "weaving". And if the kill ratio is high enough the unit breaks inevitably. Disengage immidietly after the enemy unit breaks with your cavalry, to let them flee and slaughter them with your light cavalry or skirmishers, while utilizing your infantry and bodyguards for another sandwich move.

Slingers firing from the walls in the backs of any unit will devastate them despite heavy armour: 1) the ap bullits + 2) they are on a high ground + 3) shooting them from the back/the right side ( unprotected by shields ). Feels a bit like cheating, but playing on VH it´s actually inevitable to "cheat" the AI, because not only the defence bonus grows, but their morale too ( + 7, iirc ), which means a unit with already 15 morale gets 22 value, and because those troops are disciplined, they recover from initial shocks too well.

To fight the VH bonis you need some very experienced shock units: yes, axemen can do the job, but if the phalanx fights back, even with their swords, those poor buggers get slaughtered due to lack of armour and poor defence skills. You need a unit with good morale, very good stamina ( for prolonged and repeatable attacks ), high armour values, armour piersing abilities and/or high lethality. Agrianian Assaulg Infantry in case of Macs, Thracian Elite Swordmen, Thracian Peltasts at least. If you can, hire some Tindanotae, the Galatian Wildmen, their 2 HP together with allready called fear effect and high lethality, will do the job too ( plus they are "very hardy" and don´t break in a 1 on 1 fight due to 22 morale value ).

[MDPR]

My new heavy half-stack deployed on the screenshot above, just northeast of Palmyra, was thrown back in a intense battle, before it could lay siege to the town, so I pulled it further back to Seleukeia and retrained it with yet another half-stack having been doing some fights around Susa for some time. These two armies have now been merged, retrained and just won a victory over a Ptolemaic stack, deployed only 2 turns-march from Seleukeia it self, and fortunately not having any elite units in it.

Only thing is that Susa is now without any real defenders and that the the Ptolemaio faction has all these forces deployed still. I only have this single close-to-full stack, in the entire area from Ipsos to Charax! Everything else out there are garrisons-only, with the exception of my army deployed up in Hayasdan lands, where I have managed to capture the Hayasdan capital for the second time. My strongest garrison is in Ipsos it self, a 6-unit garrison. All others has max 3 units, some only the general-unit. Also. In my western part of my empire, only Ipsos, Mazaka and Salamis has an amory. A training center that can produce heavy spear is only avail in Seleukeia now.


Petra has been recaptured by Saba, but when i moved my spy down to see how strong Saba was here, Ptolemaio was already besieging the town with a depleted stack of heavy units, however only facing a Saba garrison consisting of mainly freed-slaves inside. Thus Petra will fall as well too.

My allies has two stacks in or near my lands. Eperios has a stack standing next to the city of Ipsos and Saba has a stack south of Charax.

Ptolemaio has a constant stream of smaller contingents, (2-3 unit-stacks) in Sinea moving north to my lands.

Thanks for all the tips FriendlyFire and vollorix. Ill use them. Havent used arrows in the rear of Klerouchikon Agema yet. I have not had the chance, since most my battles has been on the walls.



Pausing this very, very challenging campaign

Think I will call the day and pause this campaign. Save it and restart a new one, now I have an idea about what to face from both Ptolemaio and Pahlava from start. I had zero idea about what to expect when I started this campaign, except what I read in the faction description. So i knew that I would face a strength from east, but not this heavy.

Think I must have fought some 500 battles by now?, in less than 72 years - thats a lot - and of those, most on the east and north front, not against the Ptolemaio faction, although I have written most my reports so far, facing Ptolemaio, since this front is the shortest of all three of them.

For instance, the Hayasdan front has been drawn from mid-way between Ipsos and Mazaka, to Edessa and Arbela and all the way up to Praaspaa too, including all the passes in between. Not to mention the Hayasdan hearltand it self. The Pahlavan-front has mainly been drawn from Zakradata, Ekbatana, Susa and down to Persepolis and from here to Karmana. So as you can mesaure, long, long front-lines, that the Ptolemaio-front cant even match close. And distances mean something when playing City mod b.

Ive naturrally fought a lot east and northeast of the above drawn Pahlavan-frontline too, in the first 10-20 years of the campaign that is. Fightings I should probably not have fought so dedicated as I did. Too many Mnai went here for no other purpose, than to stall the steamroll of heavy Pahlavan horseunits.


Im going to start a new Arche Seleuekia Campaign on VH/VH with City mod b, once again. Not sure about those formation-mods. Need to give them a bit more focus before I start.



Has anyone here actually won as Arche Seleuekia yet, playing EB Victory Conditions, using huge unit size, VH/VH settings, no AI-camera-movement, and of course using City mod b?

Thanks for all replies so far, Ill consider to post the other front-reports too.


BTW, I have seen this screenshoot-competition, and although it has reached its deadline, just want to share this screen from my third recent defeat at Persepolis, when those heavy horses from Pahlava crushes my phalanx at the north gate of Persepolis it self.




Also, yet another screen, just to show the number of battles I had already fought, back in 215 BC, thus before the super-offensive from Ptolemaio began.

By now, at the pause, I have reached year 205 BC, so many more battles fought than shown below.

[vollorix]

I must admit, i have never fought so many battles in a single campaign, perhaps because i do not play on VH at all and prefer the smaller factions. Maybe i am blitzing to well, but mostly i focus on one front and fight untill i take all the settlements from my enemy, disabling him to recruit or retrain armies. The only 500 battles i ever had would on Battlenet, lol... So, respekt for your devotion to the campaign! :)

When you play a modded version, have you installed "konny´s" mod too? Those command stars are quite usefull to autoresolve sometimes, and, only from my personal impressions, the units seem to obey the orders slightly better, which is helpfull if your units should perform well on the battlefield.

Good luck with the new campaign, i would like to see some "Heroic City Defender" among your eastern generals ;)

About screenshot: when i saw it, without reading the text, my first thought was right about the Cristmas competition. Anyways, Brennus has not yet set up a voting pool, if i got it right, and perhaps he would concider to accept some postnominated screenshots till than, who knows?

[MDPR]

OK. The Pause Screen in this campaign and a short description of the overall situation. My empire is about to be cut for good. I dont have the units to stop it, and probably not to redo it, sice Ekbatana and Susa might be the next enemy targets I have to defend.



- I have some 35 units or so, in my capital area. As seen above my Capital is clearly being threatened from west. Saba has moved up a stack, hopefully, to help me out.

- Tarsos is besieged by a half-stack, but Tarsos it self doesn't even have a single armoured unit, and half the small garrison consist of native units having been here the last 50 years!

- Karkathiokerta is being threatened by an enemy force from Edessa. The city it self has a small but fairly heavy garrison, however, it will fall. No support available to help the defense.

- Amavir is free of besieging enemies again and still has a close-to-full-stack as garrison, however, half the units here are persian spear-men. Besides, Hayasdan forces are once again moving south, probably towards Arbela, so I cant get the stack down here, to support Karkathiokerta, since the passes are now blocked by those enemy forces.

- Ani-Kamah is free. No sieges or enemy forces nearby. The garrison is small but consist of depleted heavy units though.

- Praaspa is free again, having just defeated a smaller Hayasdan siege force. However the battles and the training and retraining of units the last 5-10 years, has brought the populous down to around few 600. Not possible to train new units here for a while.

- Ekbatana is free, but has a small garrison only. My faction-leader, having been the governor also, just died. No other general available. Moving a new general up from my capital.

- Arbela is being threatened by Ptolemaio forces from west and Hayasdan forces from north (on the screen you cant see the Hayasdan forces atm, but they are there). Small but heavy garrison inside. No support from my capital since all forces here are to support the defense of the Capital.

- Susa is free, no enemy units nearby anymore. Small garrison of 3 units.

- Hekatompylos is free again. I just defeated yet another Pahlavan siege-force here.

- Gambai and Persepolis are free again, plus i managed to win a battle between Gambai and Persepolis too. New Pahlavan force-buildup at Karmana though.

Good luck with the new campaign, i would like to see some "Heroic City Defender" among your eastern generals ;)

Thanks, their really arent much I can do in this campaign anymore anyway. Or at least thats how I read the situation right now, taken in the situation-info i posted above.


Most intense campaign. Must say. Can only recommend trying it out.

[MDPR]

I like to follow this story, glad you finally decided to show a picture!

It really is exciting! I understand you really don't hold back in this game?

Some tips you may find useful:

On the AI:
- The AI will (especially on VH/) attack you like a berserker if you border them, if you however have a buffer between them (in this case Pahlava between you and the Saka), the enemy usually is peaceful and will gladly have peace with you or even an alliance.

On the East:
- As you have said yourself, taking back Persepolis is vital, but also is Karmana. It is an extremely wealthy city, especially with mines. With a good governor in there and developed buildings it can give a great boost to the economy. It will also remove Persepolis from the front border. Cities like Apameia and Hekatompylos (or even Asaak) have mines too, but not as great as Karmana. Maybe it is an idea to move along the ocean if that won't overstretch your resources, save for Pura, these cities are quite good economy. Even some further inland, like Alexandropolis or the richer Prophtasia, have mines, but these are too far out of your reach of course. Always remember to keep this buffer with the Saka. Only break that when you think you are ready for the beast beyond. If that would happen, archer spam is your friend.

On the West:
- It is good to hear that Antigonid Makedonia is still your ally, they should keep Europe of your back. Why did you not take Halikarnassos? It generates decent sea trade and won't affect much in that area. Be cautious of Pontos though, they might try to imitate a Haikakan trick if you don't watch out. Remember that the Anatolian lands are very vurnerable but profitable provinces.

On the North:
- That raid probably takes the Hai of your back for some time, maybe fit for repeating when they have rebuilded the ruins? I hope you did not destroy any wonders? Not taking Ani-Kamah is a good decision, it may have normal mines, but it will probably overstretch resources and the front line against the Hai. Plus provocative to the Pontic lords.

On the South:
- Hold the line at those cities, it will be the best shot you have at holding them, Antiocheia as front is too dangerous. You probably didnt take Palmyra to have the sons of Ptolemy to focus on Sidon and Damaskos. A break out to the south taking Hierosolyma can narrow the front down, although the fate of Bostra would be a problem. (Consider Saba who likes to walk from Carna all the way towards there because you border them then).
- Have you considered sailing for Kypros, once it goes to you it usually gets left alone and you can get some nice income from there.
- You don't have any spare resources anywhere, so it would be best to leave the east side of the Arabian peninsula alone. Taking the Persian Gulf could bring in some cash, but other places can use your resources better and the Sab'yns are always watching.

On other stuff:
- Just curious what your Basileus' role is in your empire? An active role or managing the capital?
- All these tips sound very expansionist and costly, I am just trying to give you a lot of ways to turn the wars into your favour.
- Sorry if I missed anything which you had covered already, I didnt read all of the updates.

The best of luck.

~Fluvius

On the AI:

The AI attack as a bersek on VH yes, so perhaps I need a strategy that can somehow counter that, by making peace somehow, or taking out the AI capitals around me, from start?

On the East:

The East, well, think Persepolis, Ekbatana and Susa should be focused from start of myh next campaign, as training and economy centers. Everything else in the east is only a bonus if I can hold it continously. Except should i choose the other AS-strategy that I read about in the forums, - going east - from the start. Evrything possible thrown at east, while pahlava is still being weak. Destroying Pahlava and the going for Baktria and Saka.


On the West:

Yes Macedonia did that very well. The reason I dident take Halikarnassos, was that my first stack-battle was when I tried to take Side from Ptolemi. My capture resulted in a Ptolemi offensive near Sidon or Damakos, cant remember anymore, so I had to move this Side stack to the damakos-Sidon front. After that a massive war contiouned on this front, until the very pause in 202 BC, except those few peaceful years between 220-215 BC.

No units availble to capture new cities over here basically.

Pontus never even moved forces close to my borders. In this campaign the most peacefull nabo out there, Pontus. Wouldent ally with me though. In fact I did everything possible to keep peace in the west, from the start to the pause.


On the North:

I did destroy the wonder up north. It gave me...some 10-20000 Mnai. I had no other option, cause i needed the mnai to build those mines, so I could boost my economy. I couldent afford loosing units every second turn.

Is there a scripted negative faction-factor, when destroying a wonder in a captured city?


On the South:

Thanks for the tip here. Hierosolyma did narrow the front, but it took all the heat at the same time, so I think thats why it fell so fast, almost every single turn was a siege.


On other stuff:

Manager role mostly, and so far not in the capital at all. Have been no chance for him to go there, all these battles all the time. Every turn some 4-8 battles. So moving long distances without a half-stack as escort is stupid. He would have been ambushed, as has so many of my forces been, while on the move.

Thanks for your help Fluvius Camillus :-)