[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

**ULC** · 01-02-2011, 03:16

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

For TC or for Beskar? I'm keeping my vote on TC. If he's mafia, I'd advocate lynching Sasaki or Glenn tomorrow. I simply don't see the case on Nictel, and Glenn's at least being helpful, even if it does come off as a bit... Too much.

It's Day 2 DE. If we want anytime to doubt, to organize and plan then we should start now, not 5 days later.

**Diamondeye** · 01-02-2011, 03:27

Originally Posted by YLC

It's Day 2 DE. If we want anytime to doubt, to organize and plan then we should start now, not 5 days later.

That is true but not a rebuttal of the reasons to vote TC. What Beskar's doing makes no sense as a mafia gambit exactly because it has time to come back and bite him.
Have you got an easier way of testing this Beskar's investigator than lynching TinCow? As far as I've understood (I don't know a lot about the universe of this game except for the few links Beskar provided and playing Super Smash Bros), TC's claim doesn't make a lot of sense.

All in all, a pretty solid case for D2.

**Cecil XIX** · 01-02-2011, 03:38

Although I find Glenn somewhat suspicious, good points have been raised about the utility of keeping the people talking alive. I also agree that the risk of lynching a pro-town investigator is too great.

vote: Nictel

**ULC** · 01-02-2011, 04:02

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

That is true but not a rebuttal of the reasons to vote TC. What Beskar's doing makes no sense as a mafia gambit exactly because it has time to come back and bite him.
Have you got an easier way of testing this Beskar's investigator than lynching TinCow? As far as I've understood (I don't know a lot about the universe of this game except for the few links Beskar provided and playing Super Smash Bros), TC's claim doesn't make a lot of sense.

All in all, a pretty solid case for D2.

Think about the situation for a second while the vote is swinging toward Nictel. Nictel, of all people is being lynched in favor of TC, because Sasaki finds Seon suspicious (as do I) and wants ATPG's assistance. Beskar has nothing to gain just as much as Sasaki or ATPG making it obvious they are supporting TC, a player being accused of mafia connections.

No one would really be after Nictel right now if Sasaki/ATPG did not want it. So are you suggesting that they have nothing to gain, that a Day 2 attempt to save TC will only hurt them? This isn't WIFOM, this is me asking you if you legitimately believe that Beskar will lose more than Sasaki or ATPG. If not, I don't see why you are arguing.

**TinCow** · 01-02-2011, 04:14

Frankly, I think you're going to find a lot of your answers in the gameplay setup itself. Chaotix created this as a divided town modeled on Rubicon. Rubicon's divided town never really took off because I did not provide sufficient incentives for the factions to fight. There were also two pure pro-town roles that ended up being far more powerful than I anticipated. Chaotix knows this and has almost certainly adjusted the mechanics to ensure that some fighting between the factions will occur. I think it is very likely that some townie factionalists have various goals and/or abilities that are designed to cause a bit of chaos. Some of that is likely at work here.

**Diamondeye** · 01-02-2011, 04:18

Originally Posted by YLC

Think about the situation for a second while the vote is swinging toward Nictel. Nictel, of all people is being lynched in favor of TC, because Sasaki finds Seon suspicious (as do I) and wants ATPG's assistance. Beskar has nothing to gain just as much as Sasaki or ATPG making it obvious they are supporting TC, a player being accused of mafia connections.

No one would really be after Nictel right now if Sasaki/ATPG did not want it. So are you suggesting that they have nothing to gain, that a Day 2 attempt to save TC will only hurt them? This isn't WIFOM, this is me asking you if you legitimately believe that Beskar will lose more than Sasaki or ATPG. If not, I don't see why you are arguing.

It might just be because it's 4 AM, but I can't figure out what you're actually asking me here. I'll look at it again tomorrow, but I'd really appreciate it if you elaborated on what you mean.

Originally Posted by TinCow

Frankly, I think you're going to find a lot of your answers in the gameplay setup itself. Chaotix created this as a divided town modeled on Rubicon. Rubicon's divided town never really took off because I did not provide sufficient incentives for the factions to fight. There were also two pure pro-town roles that ended up being far more powerful than I anticipated. Chaotix knows this and has almost certainly adjusted the mechanics to ensure that some fighting between the factions will occur. I think it is very likely that some townie factionalists have various goals and/or abilities that are designed to cause a bit of chaos. Some of that is likely at work here.

I didn't play Rubicon, so this doesn't tell me a whole lot.
I spectated ATPG's Star Fox game... Is that a good example of a "divided town"-thingamabob?

**pevergreen** · 01-02-2011, 04:21

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

I spectated ATPG's Star Fox game... Is that a good example of a "divided town"-thingamabob?

Kind of.

Rubicon had 2 mafia families and 2 towns. The towns could win together, or each could win with one of the mafia factions.

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 01-02-2011, 04:23

DE. Investigations are nerfed. Waiting gives us info. Wasn't someone just posting about how my character was supposedly in a mafia faction? Imagine we are back in star wars mafia and you are saying "well it said he's tainted by the dark side, what better case do we have?".

What we have here with the nictel wagon is a case of "3-post player is a better lynch than the others".

**Secura** · 01-02-2011, 04:31

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Investigations are nerfed.

I must have missed the meeting where that information was revealed; TinCow's scan of you was accurate enough. :S

**Secura** · 01-02-2011, 04:22

Originally Posted by classical_hero

Thanks for that info, since I have no idea about most of the games and series this is based, so that info helps.

We're not too aware of the game's mechanics yet, but I'd be particularly cautious with anyone who claims to have one of these bounty hunter roles, given the lore; it's possible that they can be corrupted with Phazon as they are in the Prime series.

This may be somewhat similar to Pizza's Star Wars or Lylat Wars games, where lynching/vigging specific roles denies the mafia the chance to bolster their ranks; thus we may have to do the same with the bounty hunters in this game.

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

That is true but not a rebuttal of the reasons to vote TC. What Beskar's doing makes no sense as a mafia gambit exactly because it has time to come back and bite him.
Have you got an easier way of testing this Beskar's investigator than lynching TinCow? As far as I've understood (I don't know a lot about the universe of this game except for the few links Beskar provided and playing Super Smash Bros), TC's claim doesn't make a lot of sense.

All in all, a pretty solid case for D2.

I couldn't have phrased it better myself.

After Beskar told me about the information he'd been sent and we had seen TinCow claim to be a town-aligned investigator (and his result having been confirmed by Sasaki), we theorised that it was plausible he could be a recruitment scanner for his respective mafia faction.

To me, this isn't something that can be proven without testing Beskar's source and following through with the lynch; if TinCow is left alive after this phase and roleblocked, then what? What does that achieve? Roleblocking TinCow won't prove his innocence, nor will it have any impact on the night kills because his role is to scan and nothing more; assuming that Beskar's source is correct, then it's likely he scans recruits for Dark Samus to convert.