Lack of new people is killing the backroom and the entire forum

[al Roumi]

Controversial... a masked poster claiming inside knowledge and experience!

One way or another, the mask will have to come off if you're going to be taken seriously.

Interesting points though, yet I'm not sure why anyone would be so focussed on the choice of personal avatar -doesn't the available range cater for most puerile homo-erotic desires/fetishes?

[caravel]

One way or another, the mask will have to come off if you're going to be taken seriously.

I see, so in your eyes unless I'm proven to be "ex staff" or a "veteran member", my views on this are valueless? I revealed no inside information, so I see no need for the "mask" to come off. The staff can and no doubt, will check my IP and can reveal if I'm ex staff or not, without revealing who I was.

I am not here to stay, I have simply dropped in and given my worth. People can take it or leave it - most likely they'll leave it. I cared about this place once, I still do a little and it saddens me to see it slowly going down the pan with nothing being done to save it.

Interesting points though, yet I'm not sure why anyone would be so focussed on the choice of personal avatar -doesn't the available range cater for most puerile homo-erotic desires/fetishes?

Because you are most likely a mature poster and established member. From your perspective the current systems in place here are acceptable, because you had to navigate these systems and presumably expect new members to do the same. Perhaps the kids that mostly play these games think differently? It's important for many members to have a recognisable and personal avatar instead of having to choose from a gallery of TW only portrait images. Give members basic rights of an individual, freedom of expression and get the moderators of their backs and people will come, continue as is and the decline will continue.

I know what Andres is getting at and he's right, but you cannot talk this place back to life no matter how hard you try, ACIN is also right, that if there's no threads, no discussion to hold a members interest, they will just go. Putting the onus on the members to just post more and hope, is just not good enough. The current state of the .org is not the members' fault.

This place has simply lost it's buzz and unless something radical is done to turn it around, this will continue. People can scoff at my avatar proposal, but that was only part of my argument. Allowing personal avatars won't hurt anything and is better than just shrugging and doing nothing.

[al Roumi]

I see, so in your eyes unless I'm proven to be "ex staff" or a "veteran member", my views on this are valueless?

No but the drama and subterfuge do undermine your credibility. In any case I really haven't been around long enough to know who you are/were (see left).

I do think you raised some good points, most of those in your post in fact. I just felt you dulled the keen-ness of your argument with the cloak and dagger/voice from the grave stuff. On the avatar thing, personaly, the TWC always seems so brash and corny and I honestly do get annoyed with enourmous/distracting sigs and avatars.

I certainly think you are spot on about the accessibility of the Org. The junior member thing (which includes an irritating inability to choose even among the TW avatars ) rang true in particular. I've already said I think the Backroom should be advertised and open on a simple request, with no need for probation or groveling.

[TosaInu]

New Members can't choose TW avatars?

[caravel]

New Members can't choose TW avatars?

They can. I can select from all the avatars... this is not the issue however.

[caravel]

No but the drama and subterfuge do undermine your credibility. In any case I really haven't been around long enough to know who you are/were (see left).

There is no drama, or subterfuge. Who I am is simply not relevant. I don't intend to stay, so don't want anything dragged up from the past. If it undermines my credibility that's fine, you can take my views at face value and pretend up just another new member that turned up to day.

I do think you raised some good points, most of those in your post in fact. I just felt you dulled the keen-ness of your argument with the cloak and dagger/voice from the grave stuff. On the avatar thing, personaly, the TWC always seems so brash and corny and I honestly do get annoyed with enourmous/distracting sigs and avatars.

TWC is brash and corny and overly bling. Personal avatars don't cause that, what does are the ridiculous titles, stars, awards, medals, banners and complex array of ranks pomp and ceremony, etc. Allowing personal avatars here won't turn the .org into a mess. It might make a better impression with new members, make the .org appear less authoritarian and might gain us some new blood - where's the harm in that?

I certainly think you are spot on about the accessibility of the Org. The junior member thing (which includes an irritating inability to choose even among the TW avatars ) rang true in particular. I've already said I think the Backroom should be advertised and open on a simple request, with no need for probation or groveling.

I don't see the problem in the backroom simply being completely open. It has more than enough mods to cope and there is nothing offensive posted in there. Again it can only benefit.

[TosaInu]

I've already said I think the Backroom should be advertised and open on a simple request, with no need for probation or groveling.

There is neither probation nor groveling asked/expected to access the Backroom (or anything else for that matter). Some PM I receive start with Lord or something like that, but that's not something I asked for.

There is also no need for groveling by anyone towards any moderator. All that said: no one wants to be addressed by a slur either.

There is no probation for the Backroom: anyone can register an account here and ask for Backroom membership. Even ask is a big word here, for people only have to submit a script.

There are also four moderators, from different timezones, in the Backroom to speed up approval of Backroom membership. I dare bet money on it that 99.9% is approved without more than a quick thought.

I got curious now and peek: there are 0 join requests. That can mean that there's no backlog at all.

Advertising is certainly a good point.

[al Roumi]

There is neither probation nor groveling asked/expected to access the Backroom (or anything else for that matter). Some PM I receive start with Lord or something like that, but that's not something I asked for.

There is also no need for groveling by anyone towards any moderator. All that said: no one wants to be addressed by a slur either.

My comment was tongue in cheek, one does have to ask to be admitted to the Backroom though -and I was told (probably not by a mod) it was not open to junior members (or those who hadn't posted enough to be considered human/insulting), as well as not being visible on the forum index until one has access.

And my apologies for the error re: junior member avatars.

[TosaInu]

The forum is visible, but that is that. Reason for that is the number of members who don't want to be confronted with the content in any way (that's more than one member).

Membership is open to anyone who joins. Again, it's not askng for it even.

No need to apologise for the avatars, I just thought it was open.

[Togakure]

*bows*

Kikuchiyo-san, nice to see you again, even if briefly. I've read your post carefully, and agree with much of what you say. Realizing the tone is passion-based, I focused on what was said, not the nature of its delivery, and I have no baggage regarding your identity that will distract me from your message.

A gentle irony: I decided to no longer post in the one forum that has been my "home" here for many years, because I felt that moderation in there had become a bit stifling--not towards me, but generally--reflecting what I perceived to be a growing personal frustration. The only exception I allowed myself was to answer a specific question to which I knew the specific answer, which had not yet been effectively answered. My point isn't to make anyone "feel bad." I agree that a more "laissez-faire" approach would work better throughout the board, particularly now that interest and participation are flagging. But as anyone with experience managing a forum knows, it's a delicate matter: too little and things can quickly spiral out of control.

I also realize that it's not easy to "don the Staff hat" only when needed, and be a neutral participant otherwise. But this is an important skill that I think all moderators and administrators should take seriously, and hone constantly. It has been a personal focus for me lately--how important shrewd, active judgment is when exercising authority--because we base subsequent actions upon it, which can dramatically affect others, and we must abide by any consequences.

On that note, I reiterate that I do not think the rules should change. I think that in some cases the manner in which they are applied could stand some improvement--that moderators could use more practice on when it's necessary to step in, and when it's better to remain quietly watchful.

I also agree that reconsidering aspects of the current system, specifically, the Junior and Senior membership processes, would be a good idea given the state of things. Change can be a good thing. There are risks, but I don't see any to which staff here could not easily adapt. Other forums, with far less sharp and passionate staff, manage just fine (albeit, with radically different styles).

Personally I'd rather stick with senior staff that has consistently demonstrated shrewd judgment, moral stamina, and staunch backbones--accompanied by warm hearts--despite a lack of time currently to devote to the board, than risk a decline in such crucial roles. Managing at higher levels is a difficult thing; I think it's best to think thrice before openly criticizing those who perform such roles. Most often we don't share their big picture, nor do most of us have their experience doing what they do. Credit where credit is--definitely in this case--due. Sometimes, when in the middle, having to juggle issues from above and below, it's easy to lose track of this. Most want to do what's best, in the best way, for the best. But best is like light shining on a diamond--many facets, glittering in many directions, and viewed differently from many angles.

With respect,

*bows*

[Sigurd]

Oh he is not a mystery to those who know him. But why the masquerade and why didn't you try this reform when wearing the green?
I remember a certain thread on swearing where you did conform to the current standard. Which rules does aggravate you so, our former bot instagib champion?