Lack of new people is killing the backroom and the entire forum

[edyzmedieval]

Just clicking in here to save my favourite forum.

After five and a half years of posting around here, I just want to say that we need a revamp. We need new players in. The S2TW announcement brought back some oldies but that forum is still half dead. I remember the good ol days in 2005 and 2006 when this forum was FULL, bustling with people, TWC couldn't even compare.

And then came M2TW and ETW. ETW killed us. M2TW still kept us strong because people had EB over here and they wanted their Ancient fix.

It's time we revamp guys, I mean we have dozens of lurkers but we have to encourage them to sign up for our forum and post!

I propose a week of "Welcome to the Org" sort of thing, where everything is free and everyone comes and posts. Backroom is viewable by everyone, just like TWC, and we set up competitions and everything else. That way we bring in more viewers, we bring in more posters, the lurkers will sign up to participate and that way we animate this whole forum. And perhaps we get more Backroom posters as well that way.


Here's some ideas:

Writing Competition
STW Multiplayer Competition (cmon, we're good at STW)
EB Multiplayer Competition (EB is ours...)
EB Singleplayer Competition (best screenshots, best achievements...)
S2TW raffle/competition (give away a free copy of S2TW with the courtesy of CA to win a competition)

Winners get a huge stash of porn and Org badges. That way we entice them to stay here and post.

Any thoughts?

[PershsNhpios]

I neglect to answer your post EDYZ because it bestows insufficient glory upon the Main Hall, whence all things civilised traverse.


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Yes! Skins! Bring back the 'Arabique' skin, for I was highly dissapointed by its removal!

[Tuuvi]

Just clicking in here to save my favourite forum.

After five and a half years of posting around here, I just want to say that we need a revamp. We need new players in. The S2TW announcement brought back some oldies but that forum is still half dead. I remember the good ol days in 2005 and 2006 when this forum was FULL, bustling with people, TWC couldn't even compare.

And then came M2TW and ETW. ETW killed us. M2TW still kept us strong because people had EB over here and they wanted their Ancient fix.

It's time we revamp guys, I mean we have dozens of lurkers but we have to encourage them to sign up for our forum and post!

I propose a week of "Welcome to the Org" sort of thing, where everything is free and everyone comes and posts. Backroom is viewable by everyone, just like TWC, and we set up competitions and everything else. That way we bring in more viewers, we bring in more posters, the lurkers will sign up to participate and that way we animate this whole forum. And perhaps we get more Backroom posters as well that way.


Here's some ideas:

Writing Competition
STW Multiplayer Competition (cmon, we're good at STW)
EB Multiplayer Competition (EB is ours...)
EB Singleplayer Competition (best screenshots, best achievements...)
S2TW raffle/competition (give away a free copy of S2TW with the courtesy of CA to win a competition)

Winners get a huge stash of porn and Org badges. That way we entice them to stay here and post.

Any thoughts?

I love this idea.


I'd also love it if there were some way to bring back the old skins, I really miss the Sengoku skin.

[gollum]

Competitions make sense in subfora/areas where there is a core at least audience that can attract others; if there is very little core audience a competition can accommplish little. The EB forums should be doing competitions as they want and please, not by request to save the org. There are people that hang around the sword dojo and the main hall, the collosseum and the Citadel and they seasonally scatter and recollect when something is going on. For example, there was a thread about the Golden Horde in automn 2009 that revitalised the Main Hall considerably and very quickly for the 2 weeks it did a run.

While policy changes along the lines kikuchiyo, kagemusha and others suggest will make some head way to help things, taking initiatives by people who frequent sub fora will also help. AARs for TW subfora are particularly good for this, as everyone likes to read stories while at the same time it garnishes appetites to revisit the game.

Unfortunately its not all to the admin and staff hand; things can conspire sometimes against your will, and the nature of an internet forum means that people cannot be "organised" as they would in an office to take action, neither that taking action will guarantee the desired result. Its all still on a voluntary basis, it must be borne in mind.

Helping out streamlining the forum structure as it appears to outsiders and make more visible fora that are traditionally strong points of the org will also help.

Chuchip, i thought the STW skin is currently the default skin for the forum?

[caravel]

Thanks to Tosa for fixing my account. (Kikuchiyo=me)

To clarify somewhat, my references to TWC mean simply that there is still demand for a fansite for these games. I am not for one moment suggesting that the .org become like TWC. Having two sites that are much the same would be pointless... it would also be bad for the .org and is not what the .org is about. Getting rid of JMs and letting members choose avatars won't turn the .org into TWC. I also think the staff trying new methods of moderation can only be a good thing (again I'm not implying the staff are bunch of control freak nazis, when they're clearly anything but). The staff are a level headed bunch and most are better mods than I ever was.

[Populus Romanus]

Hmm. Having just read this thread, I am very depressed.
EDIT: Who was Kikuchiyo? I got the impression that some people knew.

[PershsNhpios]

Having just read this thread, you should have some idea.

[edyzmedieval]

Hmm. Having just read this thread, I am very depressed.
EDIT: Who was Kikuchiyo? I got the impression that some people knew.

Read above, it's Caravel, a senior member.

That being said - I have an idea. When was the Org founded? The exact date.

[TosaInu]

April 10th 1999, there was a 10 year celebration in April 2009 with a special forum and a big samurai themed mafia game.

[edyzmedieval]

April 10th 1999, there was a 10 year celebration in April 2009 with a special forum and a big samurai themed mafia game.

April 10th 2011, 12th anniversary of Total War Org.

This is our chance to realise a new samurai themed mafia game (S2TW), lax the barriers of entry to the forum and promote different competitions and special events to bring in people. Perhaps a committee to draw up plans formed of mods and members could be organised?

This is a very good chance of bringing people back in.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

April 10th 2011, 12th anniversary of Total War Org.

This is our chance to realise a new samurai themed mafia game (S2TW), lax the barriers of entry to the forum and promote different competitions and special events to bring in people. Perhaps a committee to draw up plans formed of mods and members could be organised?

This is a very good chance of bringing people back in.

I'll second that idea. But here comes the difficult part - who should be there from the members side? How can we pick the people who have time and are willing to commit themselves into such thing?

[Cecil XIX]

I think that if we want to regain our popularity in comparison to the Center, it is better to concentrate on improving ourselves in areas where they are weak rather than areas where they are strong. Therefore, I think it's instructive to compare the main pages and forum indeces, starting with the latter.

Examining the number and compisition of each site's categories and forums is very illuminating, albiet subjective. By my count, the Guild is divided into eleven categories, of which I count eight being directly related to discussion of Total War. These include six categories for the PC games, one category for the console games, and one category for the series as a whole. By contrast, the Center has three more categories in total but two less for Total War, owing to it not having a category for console games and the fact that it merges the first three PC games into one, while we merge Empire and Napoleon together.

The difference is even more stark comparing forums. The Guild's main page shows 41 forums, 34 of which directly relate to Total War. These are the forums for guides in the 'New Members' section, as well as the forums for the games and the series. The Center has as whopping 59 forums but only 26 are directly related to Total War! They have twenty for the games (including a special forum for NTW tournaments, which is a nice touch), three for the series and a forum each for artists, writers and Community RPGs. These last three are debateable however, as unlike their Orgah equivalents they are not placed within the "Totalwar Series" category but rather in categories for the TWCenter community. They seem less focused on Total War in particular.

Just to summarize, here are the numbers showing what fractions of each sites categories and forums are devoted to the Total War series. Keep in mind some cases are subjective.

Org Categories: 8/11 (approx. 75%)
Org Forums: 34/41 (80%+)

Center Categories: 6/14 (>50%)
Center Forums: 26/59 (>50%)

This comparison shows where we can focus on our strengths without trying to compete with the Center's strengths. The talk about getting rid of the JM/SM distinctions seems sound, and we should go one further and reorganize the Guild. I would eliminate the "New Members" and "HoF 2010" categories, placing the "Guides" forums into the same category as their respective games while the rest of the forums go into the "Miscellaneous" category. Let's make it so that all the categories either have "Total War"/"TW" in the name if they're not the "Miscellaneous" category, and make so that the first category listed is the one hosting discussion of the latest game. IMHO, new members don't want to stick around in the new members section because that's never where the real conversations are. If the first thing they see are the forums for Shogun 2, that'll give them a better impression. And if they see that almost all of the forums at the Org are for the Total War series while most of the forums at the Center aren't, it'll look like the Org is the place for talking about Total War. That's the kind of distinction that will attract high-quality members.

[PershsNhpios]

The Org! Now with 25% more irrelevant content!

I don't think we would have much of a problem at all if you folks weren't so bored with the games. You want to have a grown up forum and pretend that this is based on more than playing Hitler in a computer representation of Europe. If that's what you want, then you are contributing to the loss of the forum. This forum would be bursting with activity if you were all avidly playing TW games, because then you would be too busy discussing your favourite little habits and enjoying the debate of the common thread between us all.

I have disappeared without thinking of returning thrice from this forum, and the only reason I have ever come back is because I have been playing MTW again and have thought of discussing the fun with like-minded people.

Not because I want to see ignorant political rants spouted all over the place and what you all had for breakfast.

[pevergreen]

It was suggested in the last discussion, by a number of people I believe, that a Paradox expansion is the best way to go forward.

Its close-ish to the TW games, and quite a few people play it already.

I SUGGEST A NEW PARADOX GAMES SUBFORUM (Eu3, Vicky2, HoI 3, CK2 etc etc etc)

Hi Caravel. Good to have a camel lover back.

[Beefy187]

I've been away from this thread, and I finally caught up.
I'll keep it short by saying, if we get couple of projects across this forum going, we will feel more united.
I'm liking Edyz idea very much. More of this should be able to turn the tides.

I've been very inactive in forums other then the gameroom. For now I'll try to contribute in other part of the forum as well.

[Husar]

I don't think we would have much of a problem at all if you folks weren't so bored with the games.

Perhaps, so where can we get brainwashed to become interested again?

Not because I want to see ignorant political rants spouted all over the place and what you all had for breakfast.

And Pevergreen, I wouldn't mind a Paradox strategy subforum if there were already several, lasting and huge threads about these games in the Arena, but there aren't, I'm not sure that subforum would be very active.

[gollum]

I'd love some brainwashing, but i fear for some of us no less than lobotomy is needed to be interested.

In any case, Glenn has an absolute point, In 2009 spring, just during the release of ETW there was a thread in the tavern polling "your favorite TW game". The results speak for themselves: STW, MTW and RTW top of the list with about 30 votes each and M2TW came far behind.

TW fora dedicated to new TW games need leaders/moderators/regulars that first and foremost play and enjoy the games themselves, in order for conversations to happen and heat/attract people. The last generation of regular orgahs from TW fora are probably that of ATPG, that came in through the Citadel.

[Fragony]

If you aren't interested in politics or what we had for dinner than simply ignore the tavern, nobody will care. To each their own, backroom especially benefits from a lack of people imho

[caravel]

I'd love some brainwashing, but i fear for some of us no less than lobotomy is needed to be interested.

Very true, but also part of the perceived attitude here no? A comment like that implies that TW these days is targeted at the drooling fanboy hordes and that some of us are now simply too "elite" for it. True in my opinion and doubtless quite a few of the staff agree with me as well, but to continue to be a TW fansite that's surely not the type of attitude that's needed here? Regardless of the criticism though, what's needed first and foremost is the end to the junior member system. I can see it doing no harm to remove this first and take it from there. Senior Members should go as well - no need for it. I am happy to add my name to a list of those willing to step down from senior membership.

[gollum]

Bingo. As you say about the attitude. Not sure about the senior membership, but i would have absolutely no trouble giving up mine.

Having said all that, i am hopeful that STW2 will be good; less factions, less units, same engine and so less chance for bugs, 4 turns per year, Sengoku Jidai, role playing elements and lots of behind the scene politics; i'm definitely in for it.

Also apparently NTW isn't bad either, especially with the new Lordz NTWIII modification for multiplayer only. It seems top notch:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053248948

[Tuuvi]

Chuchip, i thought the STW skin is currently the default skin for the forum?

Yes but the current STW one is fairly new, there used to be other forum skins that were disabled by an upgrade.

[edyzmedieval]

Regardless of the criticism though, what's needed first and foremost is the end to the junior member system. I can see it doing no harm to remove this first and take it from there. Senior Members should go as well - no need for it. I am happy to add my name to a list of those willing to step down from senior membership.

But would it really help? The mark of Senior Member is attributed to those who have contributed to the Org, and having the stamp of Senior Member and helping out newcomers would only strengthen our own resolve. It's not about being elite, it's about using the elite to help the new.

[caravel]

That's very true edyz, but it may not be how it's perceived by someone on the outside. On messageboards, ranks are often seen as a sign of elitism or cronyism. There is also the matter as to how Senior Members are selected, which is a strictly internal affair. It's ultimately up to Tosa of course, but personally I think an award selected transparently by way of a public vote rather than a rank would be a better means of rewarding those members (it could be fully incorporated into the HoF). At the moment Senior Membership is pretty much token anyway, so it won't make a lot of difference. At present I have, I think, a reduced posting flood time and a 500 inbox capacity? Members I think have much less, like 100 or something along those lines? Junior Members are even less still IIRC.

With the activity how it is here currently, I don't think the strict posting flood control, if indeed there is any these days, is justified. The inbox restrictions come across as somewhat draconian, especially considering the inbox limit over at the center is 1,000,000! Another small forum I'm active on has a 9999 limit - they're only about as active as us and are running phpBB. Considering this, would a flat 500 - 1000 for all members regardless, not be reasonable? This would certainly help new patrons getting involved in the gameroom as well.

[Andres]

About the ranks. TWC is mentioned as the site that is doing well and should be learned from.

Seldom have I seen a site where there is so much distinction between members. Post count gives a rank. They have that rep system. How many different badges, titles (citizen? civitate? artithingy?) and whatnot are there? It doesn't seem to hurt them.

[caravel]

TWC has a mostly very different userbase, and not everything that TWC does is good (far from it in my wholly biased opinion). There is not really that much for the .org to learn from the TWC that it cannot learn from elsewhere. The TWC is definitely all about ranks, status, pomp and ceremony. It awards its members "toys" for participation. For the .org to go down that route would be to abandon what the .org is all about - this is not about getting the kind of numbers seen at TWC, but about getting the kind of members that make the .org what it is and maybe getting some of our old timers back as well. As I've already said: We do not need two sites that are essentially the same, we simply need to offer members that which conforms to reasonable expectations and stop thinking that giving someone a 500 post inbox is some kind of "extra privilege", it might have been back in 2000, but not by today's standards. I think the staff need to be aware that no one has to come to the .org nor do they need to stay here. I also remember one of the mods making such a point sometime last year.

I am sure that by loosening off on the moderation somewhat, flattening out the ranks system (Junior/Member/Senior -> Member) and giving all members the same same rights (personal avatars, a decent PM box size, full access to the backroom and gameroom), the .org can appeal to those people that prefer not to go the other TW fansites for whatever reason. I can't see it hurting the .org and can't understand all the aversion to it.

[pevergreen]

Some people are resistant to change.

I am one of those people.

I am sure that by loosening off on the moderation somewhat, flattening out the ranks system (Junior/Member/Senior -> Member) and giving all members the same same rights (personal avatars, a decent PM box size, full access to the backroom and gameroom), the .org can appeal to those people that prefer not to go the other TW fansites for whatever reason. I can't see it hurting the .org and can't understand all the aversion to it.

I'd prefer to keep the senior member/member, but definately remove junior. Same rights yes, gameroom is fully open now, PM size should be doubled for everyone. I've had to empty mine twice in the last 2 months, and I get the 500. The avatars, however, I still won't budge on. The profile pic can be displayed, and thats free.

Andres: yeah the TWC rank system immediately caused me to cease participation there. I can't even play mafia there because of it.

[caravel]

Some people are resistant to change.

I am one of those people.

Resistant to change for the better as well though?

I'd prefer to keep the senior member/member, but definately remove junior. Same rights yes, gameroom is fully open now, PM size should be doubled for everyone. I've had to empty mine twice in the last 2 months, and I get the 500.

If senior members and members were to become exactly the same, then what would the point of senior membership as purely a title be? Why not just add it as an award as with the CoH and HoF? Why not have all members open to vote on it?

The avatars, however, I still won't budge on. The profile pic can be displayed, and thats free.

While the profile pic is a step in the right direction, it is merely an albeit improved replacement for the old URL avatars and does not go far enough. For someone that is thinking of registering at the .org who does not see the profile pictures, as they are not visible to guests, it's the same old gallery of portraits and boring uniformity they are presented with. They will have no idea that there are personal avatars available and simply note the apparent "restrictions".

Andres: yeah the TWC rank system immediately caused me to cease participation there. I can't even play mafia there because of it.

I don't participate much at TWC these days. In the past I've posted a few times at their STW and MTW fora, without getting involved elsewhere so I don't really understand the politics there. What I do see though I dislike.

[pevergreen]

People that dislike change, dislike it because it is change. Regardless of to what, or the reasoning or the benefits.

I'd be happy with the different usergroup and a global increase in the PM box to normalise member/SM. I do want to keep the usergroup different.

[caravel]

Perhaps we need to see beyond simply what we want if we want this place to survive? Why label yourself as a "person that dislikes change", for starters you're too young to have your views set in stone (leave that to the likes of me) and change is necessary to liven things up and brush away the cobwebs.

You're happy with your avatar and that's great, but what about others?

The Senior Membership may suit you (though you've said that you felt undeserving?), but to the majority of our members that are not seniors and to those on the outside, it probably looks very different. I admit that I don't think Senior Membership is the major issue here, but it's still an important one. The removal of JMs and the lifting of restrictions on avatars is more important IMHO.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Why not just add it as an award as with the CoH and HoF? Why not have all members open to vote on it?

CoH is not exactly an award. You have to post in the CoH thread and you will receive that badge. That is all. Whether you will follow the idea behind it is up to you.